Dindil

Incursion Leshak

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@Brododian not sure of the exact amount of time saved, but it would be the equivalent of having 2 vindicators when doing tower bashes. Great for TCRCs.

To everyone, I am thrilled about the discussion that this has sparked. If it ends up not being viable then that's fine, I was hoping to provide maybe a long term goal for some WTM pilots who have experience running incursions. I know this ship or fit doesn't really align with WTM's goal of being a new bro friendly ship, but this community is a lot of fun and maybe a carrot on a stick might help some more experienced players stick around to have fun and help out the newbros :)

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@Dindil  this is the kind of stuff  I like 

 

even tho we are new bro friendly does that mean all our fits have to be ….. NO!

we have fits there for the new bros and if they want to spend their hard earned isk in any way they see fit then so be it

the srp cover upto 6bn isk so if the fit is below that and that is why WTM don't want it I see no issue

I have been using this ship in armor fleet with roughly the same damage and close to same ehp as I can push out with my shield fit that I put together and we have not lost a single contest in any of the sites whether it was against WTM or some other skrubs

 

so what im saying is this ship is viable but would be an elite fit with fit t2 implants etc

so a SHINEY BUILD for the people who like to min max everything 

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4 hours ago, Bioshibby said:

@Dindil  this is the kind of stuff  I like 

 

even tho we are new bro friendly does that mean all our fits have to be ….. NO!

we have fits there for the new bros and if they want to spend their hard earned isk in any way they see fit then so be it

the srp cover upto 6bn isk so if the fit is below that and that is why WTM don't want it I see no issue

I have been using this ship in armor fleet with roughly the same damage and close to same ehp as I can push out with my shield fit that I put together and we have not lost a single contest in any of the sites whether it was against WTM or some other skrubs

 

so what im saying is this ship is viable but would be an elite fit with fit t2 implants etc

so a SHINEY BUILD for the people who like to min max everything 

Leshaks are terrible for contests. Things die so fast there would be little to no spool up and it's dps would barely exceed a mach or Hyperion.

An optimal incursion fleet would decimate a leshaks heavy fleet in a contest.

Normal fleets you'd benefit from about 3-5 of them.

 

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If the lesahk pilots are directed by the Voice i could see them getting a little bit of spool up to possibly even match the vindi.  Was involved in a contest with TDF we were 30s ahead of them taking the gate.  They ended winning the contest.  Could of been or low dps or their 8ish leshaks.  I don't think contests should be a indicator for the leshak to be included in fleets or not.  

 

I did a impromptu poll in fleet the other day.  There was 2 max skilled leshak pilots in fleet.  I could see a couple more people skilling into them if available.  

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we had 10 sharks on field in tdf and some of them was putting out 3700 dps on the mom

 

the leshak is not a fit or a ship that is used conventionally usually you have no more than 8 in a fleet and they shoot whatever while the dps shoot everything else this gives them time to spool up the higher dps leshak actually kill their targets before the dps even get to them makes the site times faster

 

sorry to add this but personally after running fleets with and without leshaks in tdf the site times differ by about 1 min-2mins in the favour of leshak

 

I have a fit that meets all the minimal reqs to be in a fleet the only issue is leadership are stuck in this mind set that because we are not elitist then no one is aloud to be elitist with their builds and that to me is the issue 

 

I want to fly what is best and most effective not some potato ship

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This is the second thread of ur attitude if you don't like WTM you are free to go back to TDF no one is forcing you to stay leadership is not going to change just for you ....Sorry to add this.J Jonah Jameson Hah - Suck it Up Crybaby

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Ok that was a bit harsh sorry I just quit smoking. Questions and feed back are one thing but being rude is not going to get you anywhere.

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17 hours ago, Bioshibby said:

I have a fit that meets all the minimal reqs to be in a fleet the only issue is leadership are stuck in this mind set that because we are not elitist then no one is aloud to be elitist with their builds and that to me is the issue 

 

I want to fly what is best and most effective not some potato ship

Leadership does not have this mind set at all and if you think that than you're just fooling yourself. We don;t stop anybody form bling fit ships. Most of the commanders and long time line pilots of bling fit and some even to the point of officer. Some of us don't want Leshaks in fleet because a) they're armor ships in a shield fleet and even if it looks like they have decent EHP almost all of it is in the armor b) they really aren't that superior to vindis since vindis can do much more DPS in most circumstance. if anything they would become sniper ships but again the tank just isn't there and we would have people splitting targets which isn't such a great thing either.

 

There has been much deliberation with the commanders and the community in general about leshaks so we are still on the fence with it and tests are still being done. You don;t have to fly the minimum ships though. Buy a vindi and bling it out. you can start talking about faster site times and what you think is better when you have an optimal fit.

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20 hours ago, Bioshibby said:

I want to fly what is best and most effective not some potato ship

So saddle up in a 2400 DPS vindi. Sustained DPS, by the way.. No having to worry about spinup or anything. But I'm going to make a solid bet that you're not going to do that because you'd much rather whinge and complain that we don't let you fly what you want to fly.

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just to add to this argument for leshak I am yet to lose a single contest to any fleet in any site unless they also run leshak 

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3 hours ago, Bioshibby said:

just to add to this argument for leshak I am yet to lose a single contest to any fleet in any site unless they also run leshak 

Operating a Armor based Leshak in shield fleet would require considerable testing and iterating so see where it would land in the fleet comp. 

For the amount of time and SP i would invest into flying a Leshak optimally i could have trained an optimal vindi and then maybe moved onto some logi skills as well. 

Its a snowflake fit for people who what to flex. And thats fine. But as it is now it wont be an optimal fit

Edited by Karanthos Askiras

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On 2/2/2019 at 2:29 PM, Toh Kay Manifess said:

Leadership does not have this mind set at all and if you think that than you're just fooling yourself. We don;t stop anybody form bling fit ships. Most of the commanders and long time line pilots of bling fit and some even to the point of officer. Some of us don't want Leshaks in fleet because a) they're armor ships in a shield fleet and even if it looks like they have decent EHP almost all of it is in the armor b) they really aren't that superior to vindis since vindis can do much more DPS in most circumstance. if anything they would become sniper ships but again the tank just isn't there and we would have people splitting targets which isn't such a great thing either.

 

There has been much deliberation with the commanders and the community in general about leshaks so we are still on the fence with it and tests are still being done. You don;t have to fly the minimum ships though. Buy a vindi and bling it out. you can start talking about faster site times and what you think is better when you have an optimal fit.

 

6 hours ago, Karanthos Askiras said:

Operating a Armor based Leshak in shield fleet would require considerable testing and iterating so see where it would land in the fleet comp. 

For the amount of time and SP i would invest into flying a Leshak optimally i could have trained an optimal vindi and then maybe moved onto some logi skills as well. 

Its a snowflake fit for people who what to flex. And thats fine. But as it is now it wont be an optimal fit

 

On 12/5/2018 at 9:18 AM, Maximus Atreide said:

Optimal Vindi(dual B types, t2 dcu, t1 EM rig,)

10.9k shield HP

19.2k shield EHP invulns off

52.6k shield EHP invulns on

20.3k armor EHP

32.6k hull EHP

 

Leshak(dual b types, Faction LSE, t2 dcu, t2 EM rig, 2x t2 CDFE's) - you need t2 cdfe's to run dual b type fit

11.2k shield HP
20.2k shield EHP invulns off

54.6k shield EHP invulns on

22.9k armor EHP

24.9k hull EHP

 

Edited by Maximus Atreide

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3 hours ago, Miranda Barstow said:

I'm seeing a total of 7 tank mods to be on par with the Vindi, which needs only 4.. That doesn't argue well in favor of the Leshak imo.

There are no damage rigs for it, nor do I think their will be and we don't run warp speed as a community so there isn't anything else to slap in the rig slots.

Yes it needs an LSE so do Marauder's unless they are stupid bling fit. Same as any of our t1 battleships. We don't run webs on any ship aside from web bonuses ships. It's tracking exceeds most ships that run tracking computers. Occult range with 3 te's is double void range. Mystic with 3 te's is double null range. Not counting implants or abyssal mods fully spooled mystic does more dps then void at 67k range.

But I'm not saying treat it like a vindi killer. It falls into a class like marauders and it can easily exceed and better apply sniper dps then either the NM or Mach with only a slight range defecit which doesn't often matter aside from nrf wave 4. I can solo 1-2 ships in a leshaks before 8-12 snipers catch up with me. You have 3-5 leshaks and you will have more ships off the field in the same period of time.

Don't forget dps isn't equal to applied dps. Leshaks only have optimal range and have really good tracking. Anytime something burns further then 7k away from the dps ball they are no longer hitting it full force while a leshaks can up to 67k.

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On ‎07‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 12:51 PM, Maximus Atreide said:

There are no damage rigs for it, nor do I think their will be and we don't run warp speed as a community so there isn't anything else to slap in the rig slots.

Yes it needs an LSE so do Marauder's unless they are stupid bling fit. Same as any of our t1 battleships. We don't run webs on any ship aside from web bonuses ships. It's tracking exceeds most ships that run tracking computers. Occult range with 3 te's is double void range. Mystic with 3 te's is double null range. Not counting implants or abyssal mods fully spooled mystic does more dps then void at 67k range.

But I'm not saying treat it like a vindi killer. It falls into a class like marauders and it can easily exceed and better apply sniper dps then either the NM or Mach with only a slight range defecit which doesn't often matter aside from nrf wave 4. I can solo 1-2 ships in a leshaks before 8-12 snipers catch up with me. You have 3-5 leshaks and you will have more ships off the field in the same period of time.

Don't forget dps isn't equal to applied dps. Leshaks only have optimal range and have really good tracking. Anytime something burns further then 7k away from the dps ball they are no longer hitting it full force while a leshaks can up to 67k.

warp movement speed rigs would be good however on my shield fit I use shield rigs to make it have a better buffer and a em rig so you can get 112k ehp :P

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By Math:

Leshak:
Occult L - 27km - 1054->2635 DPS
Mystic L - 67,6 km - 760->1899 DPS
spool up time is 102 sec

Occult L need ~1 min 40 sec to dealt similar damage as Void Vindicator in time.
Occult L need ~40 sec to dealt similar damage as Null Vindicator in time.
Mystic L need ~1 min 10 sec to dealt similar damage as IN Multifrequency L Nightmare in time.
Mystic L need ~40 sec to dealt similar damage as IN Xray L Nightmare in time.

As Sniper he will be worse than Nightmare,
As DPS he will be worse than Vindicator,
To bash towers he will be better than Vindicator.

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Leshak has been approved today and will go on the WL shortly. It has a few restrictions, on top of our standard rules (damage control, 70%/100k, etc):

  • Must Field T2 Weapons
  • Must use 3 Tracking Enhancers
  • Will be categorized as a sniper on the WL.

You can expect to need upgraded invulns and 3x tank rigs to hit the requirements.

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Good choice. Desintegrator range is like Pulse Laser. Blink Leshak with 760 Turret DPS, who can spool up to 1000 (880 real DPS in time) before average target die in 10-20 sec. It will be normally worse than Nightmare and little worse than Machariel, but on TCRC it should be the best ship in the fleet.

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