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Josh Cox

Require all non-mach snipers to fit at least one cap transfer to utility slots

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Title says it all, mostly aimed at nightmares, any ship with utility highs is applicable (like marauders).

It's an unnecessary drain on logi when snipers broadcast for cap (except for Outini waves) when the snipers can do it themselves. Ideally, snipers should never be broadcasting for cap except when neuted.

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Well, every commander has his own opinion about that, and I agree with that NMs should have cap transfers and cap buddy.

But Basis are there to give cap to people that need it, including snipers. Sure it would be "nice" to get less cap broadcast, but using you RCT is part of the basis work.

If you ever feel like you and your basi friends can't handle the amount of broadcasts, give 3 cycles of cap and move on (don't do this on Otunis target obviously). They will rebroadcast at some point if they still need more.

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Flying Basi very frequently, I'm split on this. Absolutely it is the job of us in the Basi crew to provide cap. This can be a real challenge though. There are days when combat caps are sparse and hungry pilots are many. T1 ships, max DPS Vindi fits, etc. The more people calling for cap, the harder to appropriately share it and more attention it takes away from repping.

Fit wise, Vindi and T1 ships are pretty stuck in their demands, but as the op noted the NM and Marauders can easily add one cap. Lack of range sometimes hurts, but snipers move the least of any ship besides the booster and we have had NM cap buddies for years. This also gives us more emergency options in case a Basi DCs and we need emergency chain.

I think cap utility high is a great idea. I dunno if forcing everyone to fit one is the right move though. I'm all for recommending it though

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This isn't a fit issue, it's a pilot training issue. Our Nightmares already have cap transmitters, and *one* un-buddied NM on the field isn't a significant burden. The problem is that a lot of our Nightmare pilots don't buddy up like they should.

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I agree with both Izumi and Imelda.

I don't really feel like the issue is so much that NMs don't have cap transfers, it's that they don't use them. Either because of lazy pilots, failure to find cap buddies, or some other reason. All of the recommended fits have ETs, and short of a few snowflake pilots who fit dual reps out of personal preference that's what the majority of NMs seem to have.

Most of the time when I'm logi and feeling overwhelmed with cap requests it's not so much the snipers doing it, it's a stream of T1 Battleships and Vindis with low cap skills combined with low numbers of ETs in fleet.

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I have to agree with some of these other posts. You could force every NM, etc to fit a cap x-fer but it doesn't mean they have to use it. If you were really going to solve this problem then you would need to require both a) them to fit a cap x-fer and b) enforce that people cap buddy up. Now this can cause a couple problems that might outweigh the benefits. 1) Is that it adds another thing that commanders (whether FC or LMs) have to watch out for and enforce (as if they weren't doing enough already) and 2) you could have a new bro show up in their NM who honestly needs to focus more on the basics first before adding in making sure they keep up with their cap buddy, and capping, etc.

Sure, 1) could be done with more experienced commanders who have learned how to add more and more to their plate to watch out for but wouldn't necessarily be consistent with every commander across the board.

Sure, 2) could have the pilot be "tracked" to say "ok, they've been here a while, they should know what to do, so let's start enforcing the rule on them". Then with that as well you have an added thing to watch out for how long certain people have been here too.

Just my 2 cents.

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Gonna keep it short, if it comes to a vote I'm definitely FOR this proposal. Because, let's be honest, there's no other mod that fits on a high slot that's as useful to the fleet as a cap xfer.

No, remote armor/hull reps don't count. Snipers aren't logi.

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2 hours ago, Kyle Westwood said:

Gonna keep it short, if it comes to a vote I'm definitely FOR this proposal. Because, let's be honest, there's no other mod that fits on a high slot that's as useful to the fleet as a cap xfer.

I'd rather vote for Macharials needing to have a cap transfer and locking every cap broadcast and then needing to server NMs, that way they have sth to do too. :P

But sadly they need that tracktor beam.

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18 hours ago, Bruce Warhead said:

I'd rather vote for Macharials needing to have a cap transfer and locking every cap broadcast and then needing to server NMs, that way they have sth to do too. :P

But sadly they need that tracktor beam.

Darn it Bruce, you know what I mean :P

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Apparently I haven't checked this for a while and it kinda took off, so here's 2 more cents from me:

As far as I know, tractor beams are required on machs. Requiring cap transfers on nightmare and other non-mach snipers with utility highs is no different: not every mach volunteers for mtac even though they have have beams but they can be told to do it, same should go for nightmares and others.

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The issue is that finding one pilot for mtac is relatively manageable. Shepherding a dozen snipers to constantly update cap buddies is a whole other thing

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I agree the problem is more about pilot behavior than fitting.

If we're serious about getting snipers to partner up, it might be enough to just institutionalize the expectation a bit.  For instance, Basi pilots are expected to cap chain.  New pilots are taught how to do it, the concept is explained to them, a chat channel is created that they are required to join, and there's an official role (LC) to oversee management and status of the cap chain.

We could do the same for Snipers.  We could teach new sniper pilots how to do it, explain the concept to them, create a chat channel that they are expected to join (SniperCap?), and create a role (Sniper Commander?) for assigning cap buddies and monitoring cap status (unless we'd rather leave it as another unsung hero like the role of "person who updates Scimi Links chat").

These aren't especially challenging steps to take, and once they're instituted, the momentum and inertia will maintain the practice.  Eventually it could just be accepted that "this is just how things are done."

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While it is suggested, It is Not mandatory this is due to the nature of our community being very accepting of very new bro or a little snowflakey, IE they might not have the skills for them or they might choose to put something else in the slots like remote reps or a tractor beam. 

Sugesting OK 
Demanding  Not OK

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Perhaps we can do something to help make it easier for them to take the suggestion.

My understanding is that we already have a channel for Nightmares to find cap buddies.  We could put a link to that channel in the Fleet MOTD and suggest that Nightmares and other cap-relevant snipers join it.  In the channel, the pilots can discuss who has how many cap transfers and what skills they need for them to be effective, and whether to bother capping or not with the skills and partners available.

We will still have people who don't join the channel, and we'll still have people in the channel who never buddy up, but making it a higher-profile idea will get new pilots in the habit of thinking about it and learning about it.  Making it more of a fleet norm might inspire greater compliance, even if we're perfectly accepting of pilots who elect not to.

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5 hours ago, T'vaar Dekdarion said:

Perhaps we can do something to help make it easier for them to take the suggestion.

My understanding is that we already have a channel for Nightmares to find cap buddies.  We could put a link to that channel in the Fleet MOTD and suggest that Nightmares and other cap-relevant snipers join it.  In the channel, the pilots can discuss who has how many cap transfers and what skills they need for them to be effective, and whether to bother capping or not with the skills and partners available.

We will still have people who don't join the channel, and we'll still have people in the channel who never buddy up, but making it a higher-profile idea will get new pilots in the habit of thinking about it and learning about it.  Making it more of a fleet norm might inspire greater compliance, even if we're perfectly accepting of pilots who elect not to.

That channel was created by some random FC without any prior permission from what I remember.

Was judged a terrible idea and told to not use it anymore? Correct me if I am wrong, since that was quite a while ago.

But really there is no need to have a channel, look at your overview for who else is a Nightmare if you need a cap buddy, start a conversation with them in order till you find one that doesn't have a cap buddy and has the right cap transfer (meta4/T2) for you. From my experience they hardly ever refuse if you ask them directly. While they kinda ignore you if you just ask for a cap buddy in fleet.

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2 hours ago, Bruce Warhead said:

That channel was created by some random FC without any prior permission from what I remember.

Was judged a terrible idea and told to not use it anymore? Correct me if I am wrong, since that was quite a while ago.

But really there is no need to have a channel, look at your overview for who else is a Nightmare if you need a cap buddy, start a conversation with them in order till you find one that doesn't have a cap buddy and has the right cap transfer (meta4/T2) for you. From my experience they hardly ever refuse if you ask them directly. While they kinda ignore you if you just ask for a cap buddy in fleet.

I see.  Having never flown a Nightmare, all I know about the channel is that I asked once if it would make sense to make one and was told that one already existed.  I never heard about the judgment that it's a terrible idea.

The way you describe finding a buddy makes sense.  Despite that, there seem to be quite a few people (above) who wish more NMs were capping each other, which suggests something about our status quo is inadequate.

If we actually want more NMs to cap than currently do, presumably we have to do something to inspire it.  To your point, perhaps the solution is to recommend that NMs who want cap buddies be more forceful about individually asking other NM pilots, rather than asking the whole group in fleet.

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8 hours ago, T'vaar Dekdarion said:

My understanding is that we already have a channel for Nightmares to find cap buddies.

Either you're referring to Elm Street, which some people believe to be the channel to find cap buddies but I'm pretty sure it was never intended to be, it's just the info channel for NM fits. If you mean any other channel, then yeah, what Bruce said.

I think it'd be a better idea to encourage FCs to occasionally call out that NMs should cap buddy up, especially if they see people looking for some in fleet chat.

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I honestly don't know what the channel was called, or whether they meant Elm Street or a different channel.

Occasional prodding from the FC would likely help.  It seems there are still a number of hurdles, though.

Bruce mentioned asking NMs individually "in order till you find one that doesn't have a cap buddy and has the right cap transfer (meta4/T2) for you."  I don't know how many private conversations it takes to find a cap buddy that way, but it sounds labor-intensive.  The effort required represents some kind of barrier.  Also, the fact that different pilots fit different cap transfers is a barrier.  Also, the fact that not all pilots have good enough cap skills to make capping worthwhile is a barrier.  Even if a pilot is willing to cap buddy and wants to find one, the effort involved in accomplishing it might just be too much.

I'm just looking for some way to streamline it.  It doesn't have to be a chat channel.  For the sake of discussion, though, I could envision a channel that NMs and other relevant snipers join as soon as they join fleet.  In that channel, they announce how many cap transfers they have, and what type.  Something like:

o/  2x faction, or
o/  1x meta 4, or
o/  0x don't wanna, or
o/  0x bad skillz

or whatever, and then that information is posted into an updated MOTD just like the logi channels, so that pilots know right away (a) who is willing, (b) who has compatible equipment, and (c) who does not already have a buddy (assuming MOTD is updated for this).

If some kind of system like that is in place, then the FC can just tell pilots to join the forum/channel/whatever-it-is and announce themselves, and doesn't end up repeatedly harassing pilots who don't have the skills or have incompatible equipment or some such.  At the same time, we make it easy for pilots to comply ("join and announce" is easy) while retaining their option to refuse to buddy up.

 

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hello gents long time no see. I've found that when low on combat caps, say 2, and we have rokhs (cap hungry blastards) in the fleet, and I saw multiple nighmares constantly broadcasting for cap, that as an FC-t if I asked for a nightmare with a cap transfer to X up in fleet, someone would, and I would "By the power vested in me by by WTM congratulate the repeated broadcaster and suck-- volunteer on being happliy paired as a cap couple."  

It sorted the problem quickly and people got the idea that if they asked for a cap buddy the FC would take the initiative to "gently encourage" someone to help their fellow pointy vertical supremacy battleship out if no one volunteered.  

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As an LC when I see nightmares repeatedly broadcasting for cap I always call them out on comms and encourage them to find a cap buddy, or to enter into some three way action with a pair that is already in place. I don't think mandating all non - mach snipers to fit it is the answer. many all ready do. It's been said, and I agree, that pilot behavior is the problem. We need to continue to encourage the other pilots to stop being lazy. 

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