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Jezra Tanaka

New Skill Guide and ship progress

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okay, so I'm fairly new to WTM, and have been hearing a lot about the new ship progression that's being layed out.  By and large, it was pretty poorly explained at first, but now I have a grasp on it, that all starter ships will lead to an optimal ship using mostly the same skills.

With that in mind, I'd like to help create new fits, such as a beam Apox for newbros working up to the NM.  My biggest question is, what will the skills required to fly be.  I'd like to include as many new people as possible, but certain minimum requirements simply must be met, as our skill guide thread looked pretty sorely out of date.  

I'm going to start my fits with meta 4 guns, with the goal of having clear progression through skills to the optimal ship.  I do want to know what the final set of optimal ships will be, I'd like to see something like this

DPS (tackle)
hyperion->Vindi
Apoc->Bhaalgorn (I'm well aware that this one probably won't exist)
Raven/Navy Scorp->Golem/Barghest
Domi->Navy Domi or Vindi

Snipe
Apoc->Nightmare
Tempest/Maelstrom->Mach

where we can set a clear minimum skills for the lowest ship, including only one ship tree/weapon system trained.  I'm still not sure what is really an acceptable optimal, as some FCs will state that they really like having a bhaal in fleet to help with the ships the vindi don't catch in time.  This is also predicated on real responses to the optimal fleets thread.

of course NM is best sniper and Vindi is best battleship, but how do we handle minmatar pilots that started plexing out of alpha status?  The goal is entry points with clear progression.

What I've heard makes it sound like this
Most lasers are being pushed to beam NM, with a possible exception for bhallgorn tackle DPS
all projectiles are being pushed to arty mach
Hybrids are of course becoming blaster vindi with tackle
Drones...??? Try to push into Vindi with a possible Navy Domi
Missiles try to push for golem(painter) or barghest

I'll start making fits now anyways, but if I know the minimum skills we will tell people to train for, I can make fits specifically for those and design a progression for skills.  I'd really like to see a career path layed out for newbros other than "get in a vindi"

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okay, so I'm basically looking at 4 starter battleship fits
Torp Raven (non navy for newbro friendly, they can navy if they have the funds, and upgrade, but my goal was to make it as cheap as possible while still meeting some basic requirements)
Blaster Hype (of course)


Mega Beam Napoc (you have to Navy issue with the amarr battleships for fitting space and for min HP requirements, so this might be easier to start with the Tach nightmare for price point)
1400mm Maelstrom 

this is one ship from each race, with only one racial ship tree required each.  Each ship uses it's races primary guns, and I think these should be "preferred starter battleships"  and we should develop a min skill level to fly them in fleet so that those aspiring to incursions can know what they need to train from where they are.

Under "other accepted starter fits"  or something similar, we should probably have alternative weapon skill ships for most trees.

Blaster Rokh to use while a hybrid caldari pilot trains into vindi ship requirements
Domi  while drone gallante pilot trains into vindi requirements

I'm trying to figure out what the best path from missile minmitar and drone/missile amarr (yeah, they do that)  because a torp phoon or a geddon don't seem to add a lot of fleet utility or have the best progression path.  A fleet phoon can potentially switch over to arty as it get's trained, but the pilots would be stuck for longer as they are training a new weapon system and a new ship tree.  The Geddon is a pretty weak ship for incursion fleets and it's bonuses are not PvE friendly beyond drone damage.  these ships don't offer as much use to the fleet and have a longer/less clear progression path.  I'd propose that we have ideas for these ships in reserve, but not publicize them as acceptable starter ships.
 

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so our fitting website has currently accepted ships and suggested fit on it, however it's currently under going a update. Including a path to follow so please allow us to complete this before you hurry to go any further,  If you wish to have a chat ingame please let me know i'll be about.         

we don't  accept standard ravens and have not for a long time. 

 

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is there a reason why not?  it seems like the perfect starter ship for torps.  it's cheap and gets plenty of EHP in shields.  it's not expensive to fit either.  a (mostly T2) fully fit raven is only about 400 mil for all fittings and the hull.  is also what newbro are likely to have.  
Is it too tight a fit?

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4 hours ago, Jezra Tanaka said:

is there a reason why not?  it seems like the perfect starter ship for torps.  it's cheap and gets plenty of EHP in shields.  it's not expensive to fit either.  a (mostly T2) fully fit raven is only about 400 mil for all fittings and the hull.  is also what newbro are likely to have.  
Is it too tight a fit?

Because you need to spend at least 1b+ on the fit to make it survive in or you slap lots of LSEs in the mids and have no damage application at all.

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@Jezra Tanaka

To make the new-bro Standard Raven work would need a fit like this. This would then cost 413m to achieve 99.2kehp with 66.7k ehp in shields. So it is do-able. The fittings are not an issue, my no-skills alt can fly in no problem. With lack of Hull and Shield skills, I am down to 91.2k ehp. but still 60.8k ehp in shields. Which overall is more than most optimally tanked vindicators in shield EHP. 

It does 8 dps less than the Navy (Yes 8) and does lose application of that damage, but lets face it, they both aren't great ships. 

I believe the standard Raven was removed years ago when the tank was not as good, and it kept getting popped. Or perhaps a mid-slot or 2 was added over time to make this fit do-able??? Either way, I don't see a reason why it isn't accepted. 

Spoiler

[Raven, Raven fit]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Auto Targeting System II

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

 

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