Elathy Maricadie 2 Posted July 24 (edited) I know the FCs have the discretion to reject ship fitting that does not meet the requirements set forth in the Rules and Regulations (R&Rs) documentation but I feel, as a member of this community, I have the obligation to reject any FC demaded alterations to a ship's fittings that would, in doing so, cause the ship fit not adhere to the aforementioned R&Rs. Yes, you have theorycrafted ships and fittings for them to set a certain standard that you fully know meet your expectations (as in the R&Rs). Now let me ask you a simple question, which would you rather accept in fleet? 1) a Ship, that's nearly identical to a listed fit, that meets the requirements (R&Rs) or 2) same ship as in 1. but with FC demanded alterations, swapping out 1 module for another, but doing so would cause the ship fit to no longer meet requirements (R&Rs). Exibit A (as in 1. above): Exibit B (as in 2. above): Edited July 24 by Elathy Maricadie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hamxus 3 Posted July 24 Would you mind linking the fit here, please ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elathy Maricadie 2 Posted July 24 [Vindicator, Vindicator] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gist X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive Pithum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener True Sansha Stasis Webifier Pithum A-Type EM Shield Amplifier True Sansha Stasis Webifier Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Thermal Shield Reinforcer II Large Core Defense Field Extender I Ogre II x5 Null L x3459 Void L x3277 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elathy Maricadie 2 Posted July 24 (edited) Keep in mind that this is based on Optimal Vindicator fit from 3-4 years ago. And a lot of changes have been made to the game since then and WTM community have evolved along with the Incursion Meta. Edited July 24 by Elathy Maricadie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zilvra Selvaris 29 Posted July 24 R&R is based on a fitting where the pilot has all level 5 skills, as listed in the document. It is understood that each individual pilot, when using the in game fitting tool most likely will not meet those numbers in the R&R as most of our pilots do not have perfect skills. All of that is accounted for in our fits. Looking at this fit you are in a weird place between an standard and optimal fit based on our current doctrine. Part of the reason you need an additional EM mid slot is that the rigs do not match our doctrine. The (2) Large Core Defense Field Extender I should instead be (2) Large EM Shield Reinforcer II. It is more efficient to fill the Vindi EM hole with rigs and provide more utility with webs. I am not sure what the FC asked you to replace, but the current standard fit is quite a bit different than the old meta. Depending on your number of hours, the FC may have been expecting to see a 3 web vindi to match our upgrade policy. The rig/mid slot combo is one I certainly have not seen in a long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elathy Maricadie 2 Posted July 24 (edited) I was told to swap the EM Shield Amplifier out with a T2 Multispectrum Shield Hardener. I understand that my fit is in a weird "in between" state, even back then it was, and that is something that will change over time. At this time I see no reason to require me to swap out the Rigs just so I can fit a T2 Multispectrum Shield Hardener, that is in my opinion just a waste of ISK and wouldn't change how it performs. I only just returned to the game a couple of days ago and I only have like 6 hours or so registered. I Do have all the Magic 14 skills at 5. I have 158m SP. Edited July 24 by Elathy Maricadie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Galora 374 Posted July 24 Tank modules were rebalanced at least a couple times in the past couple years. Even with this fit your EM is insufficient without the rigs or a second hardener. The WTM vindi nowadays needs more webs to make up for the fact that there is usually less in fleet, so that's why we put more importance on a vindis amount of webs fitted. Swapping t1 rigs is cheap and is required for the optimal fit anyways. Maybe 30m total to be compliant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamikaze Wombat 2 Posted July 25 I agree that swapping the EM shield Amp with a T2 multispec would not work at all. Current preferred fit is with Pith A Multispec, but your Pith B still meets tank requirements with 2x EM Shield Reinforcer rigs instead of the Core Defense Field extenders and the EM Shield Amp so you can have that 3rd web. Your fit as it stands while no longer typical is actually probably closest to the Entry/Alpha because of the T2 Mag Stabs and does meet requirements so I don't see any reason you couldn't fly with the fleet for some hours to get the isk for upgrade to triple web and to faction Mag Stabs, then you can be Optimal Vindi. Please note that I am just R badge so I don't actually have any authority, this is my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elathy Maricadie 2 Posted July 25 6 hours ago, Kamikaze Wombat said: Current preferred fit is with Pith A Multispec, but your Pith B still meets tank requirements with 2x EM Shield Reinforcer rigs instead of the Core Defense Field extenders and the EM Shield Amp so you can have that 3rd web. Your fit as it stands while no longer typical is actually probably closest to the Entry/Alpha because of the T2 Mag Stabs and does meet requirements so I don't see any reason you couldn't fly with the fleet for some hours to get the isk for upgrade to triple web and to faction Mag Stabs, then you can be Optimal Vindi. I appreciate your feedbacks and will probably do as suggested above, getting a 3rd web and swap out the rigs, for now and then upgrade lowslots as I can afford. On a side note, without knowing the process in which FCs/Managers verify ship fittings when people x-up, I would speculate that the FC only took a quick glance over the mid-slot section of the fit and seeing a Shield Amplifier rather than a Shield Hardener and thought that it would "comply" if that was swapped. Not taking into consideration that the Rigs could possibly be different than what it should be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elathy Maricadie 2 Posted July 25 Remember there are many ways to achieve the same goal - one is not necessarily better than the other. Tanks checks should be evaluated as a whole, not just on the individual module level, I guess that is my point here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
