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Linwood Davion

"Can I bring my Vargur?"

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Hello o7

Quick about me, a new pilot to WTM (I'm in the gross Macherial) and ex TDF line pilot left due to over toxic behavior.

So after learning about how hated the Mach is and now the Leshak is has been removed from optimal (I'm not complaining I completely understand why they are seen that way) I was suggested to grab a Nightmare and fly that. I looked at the required skills and fit for an entry Nightmare, 1 day and 880mil Isk later I end up with around 773dps, I end up doing less damage than if I was in my Machariel.

"Yeah yeah you have crap skills, get on with your point!" Well, I can fly a Vargur that I use for VGs but I can't fly the ship in WTM without another 80 days of training. Without Bastion I clock 1368dps. Can you see where I am going with this? Instead of wasting Isk and training time on a Nightmare, when I can already fly something that does nearly double the DPS?* The Nightmare had more tank, granted. But maybe we can look at having an Entry Level None-Bastion Marauder? Tank it up a bit and remove the Bastion and MJD? In a matter of fact, this fit now follows the guidelines on the WTM fits website. You can apply this fit to all three marauders.

The reason I'm saying this is that I was told that the skills required are "skills I already should already have!", which seemed negative and subjective. Why should I train 21 days diverting my skill queue from the already 80-day long skill queue just to fly something that does the same DPS or less than something I can already fly? It's a waste of potential.

I would rather bring the conversation than just sit on it and say nothing.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

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Bastion is THE reason why marauders are the meta in incursions right now and asking for a non-bastion marauder is just wasted dps I would rather bring another vindicator with webs to do 2.3k dps instead of your vargur.

The purpose of the MJD is also important as a emergency mtac or as aggro consolidator in tcrc due to how we fly our vargur. 

So we expect our marauders to pull aggro and as such we expect them to have certain skills trained so as to keep them safe and secondly competitive due to the 1 hs focus.

If you really insist on flying a vargur then wait for your skills to finish first and use mach for 30 in fleet hours before switching to optimal hull (nm/vindi/marauders) or use the nm 

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Posted (edited)

To be fair you can keep bringing the Mach until you have the required skills for the Vargur. The only downside is that FC can (doesnt have to, but can) skip the Mach after 30 in-fleet hours if they see some other snipers who are playing by the "Upgrade Policy". Some FCs will, some wont.

If they keep poking you to switch to NM, just tell them what you wrote down here: you are in fact skilling into the Vargur but until then this is what you can fly that helps the fleet most. A meta4 NM is indeed way less useful than a t2 gun Mach.

Just make sure that you are indeed skilling towards the Vargur. Some LSI (Large Skill Injector) and +4 / +5 attribute implants also can help reducing the time.

The other option is what Eliz wrote down: get a Vindicator, and even with meta gun you are going to do (worst case scenario) 1000+ dps and you will have a really useful web that helps the fleet greatly if used correctly.

I personally would not switch into a meta NM in your case.

Edited by niki lasvegas
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You've missed the point. Eliz.

It requires 80 days to fly my Vargur in WTM. Skills that alot of pilot's don't have at level 5. Now I have made an assumption that is because due to it being easy to mess up and get yourself killed if you bastion incorrectly just before a switch or MJD yourself into doom. Hence the fit I posted reduces pilot error but allows them to fly the hull. It's about bringing best dps you can already do while training into the meta. Instead of training in the other direction and having less pilots that can fly the meta.  At this moment in time fleets are missing out on a 2300dps due to a pretty high skill requirement.

22 minutes ago, Eliz Marbly said:

Bastion is THE reason why marauders are the meta in incursions right now and asking for a non-bastion marauder is just wasted dps I would rather bring another vindicator with webs to do 2.3k dps instead of your vargur.

The purpose of the MJD is also important as a emergency mtac or as aggro consolidator in tcrc due to how we fly our vargur. 

So we expect our marauders to pull aggro and as such we expect them to have certain skills trained so as to keep them safe and secondly competitive due to the 1 hs focus.

If you really insist on flying a vargur then wait for your skills to finish first and use mach for 30 in fleet hours before switching to opti

 

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13 minutes ago, niki lasvegas said:

To be fair you can keep bringing the Mach until you have the required skills for the Vargur. The only downside is that FC can (doesnt have to, but can) skip the Mach after 30 in-fleet hours if they see some other snipers who are playing by the "Upgrade Policy". Some FCs will, some wont.

If they keep poking you to switch to NM, just tell them what you wrote down here: you are in fact skilling into the Vargur but until then this is what you can fly that helps the fleet most. A meta NM is indeed way less useful than a t2 gun Mach.

Just make sure that you are indeed skilling towards the Vargur. Some LSI (Large Skill Injector) and +4 / +5 attribute implants also can help reducing the time.

The other option is what Eliz wrote down: get a Vindicator, and even with meta gun you are going to do (worst case scenario) 1000+ dps and you will have a really useful web that helps the fleet greatly if used correctly.

I personally would not switch into a meta NM in your case.

The reason I don't want to fly a Vindi is because of the terrible time I had in TDF. I've sold my Vindi and was told to bring my Mach to WTM because they are friendly and welcoming and the first thing I was greated by sounds of discuss and told to get out of it and fly a ship worse than my Vargur.

I'll stick with the mach for now until my skills meet WTM standards. 

 

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Not sure what was wrong with the Vindi, but WTM is not TDF. Maybe you should try flying the Vindi here too. Who knows. Its a bit cap-hungry, but WTM fleets are used to being cap-hungry.

I personally would not pick on a linepilot if they are trying their best flying what they have currently. I hope other FCs are not doing that either.
For example i would not mind seeing a Mach in my fleet as long as they are willing to MTAC, even bringing an MJD for that. Maybe not more than one tho' :)

The most important thing is the will to upgrade. As long as they have that then sooner or later they will meet with all the requirements.

I only have a problem with two kind of people:
1) already have a lot of in-fleet hours and they just keep bringing bad fits, not investing.
2) not trying their best on grid, being sandbags.

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Thanks for your feedback.  We've gotten similar requests concerning bringing alternative fits outside of the ship fits that we provide in our fitting web sites.  Unfortunately, WTM has a fairly strict fleet doctrine that we ask you to respect.  If you do not have the necessary skills to fly a particular ship at this time, you're more than welcome to fly a different ship/approved fit as listed in the fitting web site.

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7 minutes ago, Linwood Davion said:

The reason I don't want to fly a Vindi is because of the terrible time I had in TDF. I've sold my Vindi and was told to bring my Mach to WTM because they are friendly and welcoming and the first thing I was greated by sounds of discuss and told to get out of it and fly a ship worse than my Vargur.

We do accept a wide variety of ship hulls compared to TDF but we do expect you to upgrade to the optimal hulls as soon as possible.
What the people in discussion asking you to invest in NM since you came from TDF; they assumed you already had the skills required to cross over easily and getting that optimal hull gives you more time on our upgrade policy.

 

19 minutes ago, Linwood Davion said:

Now I have made an assumption that is because due to it being easy to mess up and get yourself killed if you bastion incorrectly just before a switch or MJD yourself into doom


Secondly please read the vargur guide if you intend to fly that. As long as you follow the guide and don't greed an additional bastion cycle; you are mostly safe. When you get into the fleet in your machariel; see what the marauders do and make your judgement. Seeing is believing right?

https://tinyurl.com/WTMVargur

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Posted (edited)

I understand what you want to say, about starter Vargur, Linwood Davion, I really do. That would not work, sadly, because while WtM is being friendly community, it's governed buy rules and they are rigid. And they are holding community together - for years. Mach is best bet for you now. What Niki said.

If you really want to bring something that does not follow ALL the rules, there is only one way. You need to Complete WtM Resident Training program https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe1MVI62AWsNjTMub3Se1cHKkb78Jk71iIyo_d3htNTxoedvw/viewform, prove - we have exams for that - that you understand _really all implications_. Than you can attempt to change rules, and have a fair go at it.

Edited by Charr Coal
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