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Thehan Eranga

Nightmare Cap Chain for Newbros

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This will be just my thoughts on the nightmare cap chain and how new bros can more easily chain with there buddy

General Tips for Newbros

  • First once you go into nightmare chat, scream for a cap buddy till they give you one.
  • Always talk with you cap buddy on when you'll be chaining, that's what nightmare chat is for.
  • Pulse your prop mod, this means MWD ON for 2 cycles, OFF for 5-6 seconds.
  • If it looks like you'll run out cap before you reach your buddy, broadcast for cap, I know people will scream at this, but even a few squirts of cap will be helpful.
  • Pilots who have a resebo fitted, only turn it on when you need it (to lock the mara), as it drains your cap unnecessarily.

TPPH (True Power Provisional Headquarters)

  • Most nightmare pilots (including myself) have grown accustomed to not chaining in the first two rooms of the TPPH, although if you do feel like you don't have enough cap life to burn through two rooms, talk to your buddy in nightmare chat and start chaining once you are at the gate to the next room, this will help your cap significantly and will make the site much easier for you.
  • In the 3rd room of the TPPH you should have enough cap to establish the chain once you are anchored, do not try to chain while burning as there's the possibility of you drying yourself out unnecessarily.

NRF (Nation Rebirth Facility)

  • The NRF is the trickiest site of all to cap chain in, ideally you would want to start the chain at the 1st anchor spot and keep it going, but that's really tricky even for experienced pilots, so what you need to focus on is again to chain up at the anchor spots.
  • If you feel like you don't have enough cap, stop shooting, lasers eat a butt load of cap and turning your guns off for a few cycles can help you regen some cap while burning, especially on the long burn to the 4th wave.

TCRC (True Creations Research Centre)

  • This should be clear enough, burn to anchor, establish chain, PROFIT.

Bonus Tips

  • Try to master the art of chaining while burning, this is very useful in NRFs, in order to pull this off you need an experienced pilot to be in the chain, in order to acomplish this, you will have to be very attentive, pay attention to where you cap buddy is, if they are falling behind turn off your prop mod for a few seconds and let them catch up. If done right, it will make your capacitor much happier.
  • Use drugs, Synth Mindflood Booster, which grants a capacitor modifier of 3%, is very helpful for all nightmare pilots, if you do have Neurotoxin Control IV you can use Standard Mindflood Booster, which grants a capacitor modifier of 10%.

 

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Back when I was a newbie nightmare pilot trying to minmax cap a little I would set my autorepeat off on my sebo. Then I started forgetting to cycle it :P

We had one commander who liked to do it this way tho, and he would preoverheat the sebo, as one cycle doesn't generate much heat. Kind of a lot to manage but can be kind of fun.

Also you said resebo and not sebo, but I got your meaning. First wave NRF after mara it's just vylade so you can kind of manage your cap easily with it. Also scorch burning away is a little easier on cap.

I like this guide it's a good start.

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I didn't do the deep dive into ammo types as most newbros would probably be running beams and faction ammo, and also pardon any typing errors

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"Pilots who have a resebo fitted, only turn it on when you need it (to lock the mara), as it drains your cap unnecessarily."

That's a very bad advice.
Resebo has to little cap cost for me to waste mental capacity on micromanaging it.

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Posted (edited)

I've flown most of this focus with the new fit and holy crap is it cap hungry. 

I'd like to propose command core update the optimal fitting to require faction remote cap transfers. The extra range is quite necessary with this cap hungry fit.  They will allow for more room for error when burning while capping in an NRF.  Almost every time today I was nearly out of cap while burning to the final anchor point in the NRF, even when pulsing my prop mod, slowing down, even announcing in NM chat that when to slow boat/burn (I was AAA most of the time I was flying my NM.) and never once did my cap buddy keep up with me. The extra range will allow for cap chains to be established faster and as people get used to the new fit, it will help keep the chain up while moving in the NRF. 

I'm not a fan of this fit at the moment, but that's just because I'm having trouble finding someone to fly with that can keep the chain up while burning.  I know ultimately, once people get used to it, things will be better.  I'm pretty sure Lillitu II or another part of command was testing this fit all last focus and I was their cap buddy a couple of times. We were always in sync and they almost never had cap issues at all cause we never (or almost never) broke our chain, so this fit does work. I have noticed the better tracking and application of DPS with the fit, but I do think its a half measure to not require faction remote cap transfers.

Edited by Devin Darastrixgix

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13 minutes ago, Devin Darastrixgix said:

I'm pretty sure Lillitu II or another part of command was testing this fit all last focus 

It was awesome testing this with you... However, I also find it very difficult with most cap buddies is they dont burn or they just dont pay attention and I completely agree with everything you have said.

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2 hours ago, Devin Darastrixgix said: 

I'd like to propose command core update the optimal fitting to require faction remote cap transfers. The extra range is quite necessary with this cap hungry fit.  They will allow for more room for error when burning while capping in an NRF.  Almost every time today I was nearly out of cap while burning to the final anchor point in the NRF, even when pulsing my prop mod, slowing down, even announcing in NM chat that when to slow boat/burn (I was AAA most of the time I was flying my NM.) and never once did my cap buddy keep up with me. The extra range will allow for cap chains to be established faster and as people get used to the new fit, it will help keep the chain up while moving in the NRF. 
 

I’ve noticed most of the time in NRFs that the newer nightmare pilots will be falling behind 30-40km at times during the burn to the 4th wave anchor, I don’t think the extra range on cap transfers would matter, i think that it’s just that pilots still need to get more experience especially on when to burn and anchor

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Posted (edited)

I humbly disagree with both of you here.  With how tight the cap is on this fit the extra 1km range is actually really helpful cause it means that cap is transferring that much sooner.  That extra second of faster activation time means the difference between stop shooting/burning and continuing to do your job.  if you have to stop shooting or slow down, ultimately its to the detriment of the fleet and you never should have removed the low slot battery mod in the first place.

Edited by Devin Darastrixgix
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In my opinion, we should do everything we can to help our brothers and sisters in these sites to achieve the ultimate goal of clearing sites faster. This will not be done on zero capacitors and I think Devin is absolutely right here, and to be honest, the urge to burn between anchor will not be fulfilled with 3/4 speed (extra room for error).

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It's about coordination. You aren't going 3/4 speed the whole site, you are trying to work together with your cap buddy instead of trying to just bumrush to the next anchor thinking only for yourself. Faction cap transfers aren't going to fix that. If anything you will just waste your own cap for the person trying to catch up with you with t2 cap transfers. Or having faction cap transfers and not training up the cap emissions skill to go with it. Its a huge reach to think that 1k more cap range is going to make any sort of difference without working to solve the underlining problem. And for the pilots who have gotten this coordination down you are just telling them to spend about 100mil isk extra for no real reason.

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As I stated I was coordinating as best as I could, but I think you're overreaching by not realizing how much that extra 1k will actually help. It means there's more room for error when coordinating the burn to anchors, it means reestablishing your chain occurs that much faster. with the upgrade policy requiring faction mods over tech 2 then you're guaranteeing that the NM will eventually all have the cap transfers. 

Furthermore, if you're saying that "we shouldn't be bumrushing the next anchor" that's literally counter intuitive to the idea that we want faster site times while diminishing the Niki mantra of "Git Gud." We should be striving to not have to go 3/4 speed and finding any way to make us not have to go 3/4 speed.  Additionally, if I'm 3/4 speed while using my prop mod I'm wasting even more valuable cap since I'm not getting 100% use out of my prop mod.  With how incursions are getting more and more competitive as time goes on, having an entire wing of your fleet flying at 3/4 speeds during a contest just doesn't seem to be a good thing if we're trying to ensure we win those contests.

I do agree that the cap transfer skill is a must and that's why T2's are currently optimal because you need lvl 4 skills (iirc) for them. 

100mil isk is less than an hour of fleet time, I find this argument disingenuous considering the huge cut to capacitor the NM took with this new fit.

Under the old fit I agree, T2 cap transfers were all that were needed, but with the new fit, and extreme cap constraints its under everything we can do to get cap to each other faster or maintain cap chains should be taken into consideration. 

Not to be flippant, but have you even flown this new fit Malcolm? Perhaps your experience may change your opinion. Considering you've got one of the pilots who actually play tested this fit before command decided to implement it, is agreeing with me, perhaps that should be taken into some more consideration if you haven't taken the time to fly the fit yourself.

I've said all I have to say I regarding the fit.  I leave it to command core to discuss it further in the proposals thread if someone decides to post it there. I thank you guys for your time to read my thoughts and opinions on the new fit. 

I also want to reiterate that I am not asking or trying to set up an argument to go back to the old fit, I'm just trying to get this fit to function better.

Ultimately, I think this means that snipers just need to get into a Pally quickly =P

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4 minutes ago, Devin Darastrixgix said:

Not to be flippant, but have you even flown this new fit Malcolm?

I fly nightmares consistently, I only ever fly relay with MTACing. I have my cap buddy within like 2k of me while we burn to our anchor. Like I said its not about going slower all the time, its about staying with your cap buddy to chain as much as possible. Instead of rushing ahead without them.

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KK I wasn't trying to be rude, I was just curious if you'd actually flown the new fit that's all, to make sure we were talking from a same experience stand point.

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Posted (edited)

I flew the new fit 6 years ago,  wasn't an issue then on the cap. the biggest issue I ran into was a cap buddy with a different cap emitter then what I had... they would be using non t2 or the faction and would just go out of range of the t2 they had equipped... or would decycle theirs... the secondary issues I ran into was the ones that insisted on anchoring with the logi vs going into their optimal range and or my buddy not having a x-type mwd. the non x type mwd ended up being them low on cap so I'ld have to give them cap with no incoming cap for a cycle or 2 then they would start to cap me which put me critically low on cap... but a decent or good cap buddy and not a single issue.  woth the top notch cap buddy we could go mtac fit with the te vs the cap relay and still be stable with only 1 incoming cap transfer... alot of it also has to do with you and your buddy's piloting skill as well as ingame skills.  we didn't cap during burns... rarely if ever on the gates of a tpph, mainly just the anchor positions  in hte final room of the tpph, nrf and tcrc... tcrc we had more then one that would ram us apart to break the chain.  those people (the ones that kept ramming other ships, etc.) ended up in the long run getting kicked from fleet because they kept costing the fleet in ships lost from their actions.

Edited by Beyil

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21 hours ago, Malcolm Galora said:

 Faction cap transfers aren't going to fix that.

You would be surprised how offen newbros park 10,1km from me on anchor points. And since inertia is a thing in EvE, by the time I move to them close enough, cap tend to be drained.

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So what happens is you cap them with the longer range faction transfers and they are just using normal t2. Ofc they don't notice since they are capped up, and it ends with the faction transfer pilot suffering. Bling modules aren't going to fix inexperienced pilots or inattentive ones.

This is one of the main reasons we changed the optimal fit to just t2 transfers, mixing ranges between fit levels isn't ideal.

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3 hours ago, Kate Salts said:

You would be surprised how offen newbros park 10,1km from me on anchor points. And since inertia is a thing in EvE, by the time I move to them close enough, cap tend to be drained.

So, one of you isn't anchoring right.  
If you KAR on the AAA at 5km, you would have to fly directly past the AAA somehow in order for this to happen.  Any slight deviation from straight on would put you within 10km from your buddy.  
If you KAR your buddy at 5km... well I mean you can't really end up 10.1km away when anchoring then.  

 

As for this fit.  I have been running a Target Painter and Tracking Enhancer for months and haven't had an issue when cap buddying with people other than people who are just new or forget to cap buddy.  My fit is more cap hungry and I can still burn between anchors without having to maintain the cap chain while burning, so this is a weird issue to be having.

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