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Xoceac

Upgrade Guide (WIP)

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Upgrade Guide

Updates (These will be removed when the guide is finished ofcourse)

  • Switched the rough upgrade progression around
    • Slot 6(7) to 10 before Ascendancys
  • Removed Nirvana, Halo and Snake implants
  • Changed the Abyssal DCU to Abyssal Faction DCU
  • Added Battleship and Logistics specific progression
  • Small typos removed and cleaned up

Upgrading your ship and modules is probably one of the most important things, if not the most important thing in Incursions. Warp To Me already has an upgrade policy in place to get you into an optimal hull, but where do you go from there? I’m here to explain to you what module is best to upgrade first, which modules you should be getting and what implants are great to get. The amount of ISK these modules cost is fluctuating and won’t be mentioned in this guide as much, maybe as a rough estimate. 

Screenshot_10.png.c434b5d03067a0fb9c7ac94242ad9457.png Rough upgrade progression

I wish I was good with Photoshop and I could make a cool progression picture, but I am not and will try to do my best doing a rough upgrade progression. I say rough because sometimes you need something before your next actual upgrade. Say you are new and you want to fly with Warp To Me, but can't fit something or you aren't cap stable and you need an implant for that to work or would rather buy Omega before going towards an optimal ship. That's why this is a rough upgrade progression and there are plenty of places and people to help you make these decissions, other than this guide.

  • Starter Battleship Pilot > Skill for a preferred starter Battleship > Optimal Hull > Skill towards an Optimal Fit > Buy Omega > Skill level Vs > Buy Optimal Fit Buy the Slot 7 to slot 10 implants >  Buy Implant Set (Slot 1 through 6, Ascendancy is preferred) > Abyssals
  • Starter Logistic Pilot > Skill for a Minimum Logistics ship > Starter Basilik/Scimitar > Buy Omega > Skill for Logistics Cruiser V > Buy the Optimal version > Skill level Vs > Buy the Slot 7 to slot 10 implants Get an Implant set (Slot 1 through 6) > Abyssals

 

Screenshot_9.png.0a28d530300b4a1a8460b37d6c86078c.png Optimal Hulls

It’s best to plan ahead. There are some things that work for both battleships and logistics and some that are very specific. For example, there is only one real implant set that works for battleships and that is the Ascendency set. This is not such a smart idea on logistics, though it is still worth it if you fly both. Make sure you don’t land on grid first when entering a site or TPPH room, you should be ok otherwise.

For ships and most importantly modules, a logistics pilot is done sooner than a DPS or Sniper. If you are planning on only flying logistic ships, you aren’t spending as much ISK as a battleship. Therefore it’s good to plan which ship you want to fly. My personal recommendation is to do both and get an ascendancy set. The set is not only useful for incursions themselves, but also moving between a focus. Some focusses have more than 45 jumps and can cut your moving time by a lot.

I wouldn’t personally suggest that you should buy what you can fly. I thought about it, but Incursions are endgame content. If you have a lot of experience in PVP fleets, doing missions or flying logistics ships, you are more than welcome, but it’s better to fly something cheaper and steadily upgrade. Most pilots new to Incursions die on their first day or week of flying, mostly leroying the wrong gate, because they didn’t properly warped to their Fleet Commander and checked for gate status.

Entry/Starter Ships and Logistics

More information: WTM Fittings

  • (Other Accepted Battleships >) Hyperion > Vindicator > Nightmare/Leshak
  • (Other Accepted Battleships >) Bhaalgorn > Nightmare > Vindicator/Leshak
     
  • Logisics Cruiser IV > Starter Basilisk > Logisics Cruiser V > Optimal Basilisk > Loki
  • Logisics Cruiser IV > Starter Scimitar > Logisics Cruiser V > Optimal Basilisk > Loki

A hull upgrade is your first priority. For Logistic pilots it’s Logistics Cruiser V. Both of these options offer the best increase of optimal.

33529_64.png.c5a23e49d0c51d03170ac2c0f84a0773.png Implants

More information: Implant Guide
Pricecheck: EVE Praisal
Market: Fuzzwork Market Browser

Before I start talking about module upgrades, as they are a little bit more straightforward, I would like to talk about implants. Buy implants with LP, it’s simple. Each site gives you 7k Concord LP and every incursion focus should atleast net you about 50k to 2m Concord LP, depending on how many sites you run. I earn on average 400k to 1m Concord LP. You are perfectly able to buy implants for that.

Battleships

  • Ascendancy Set
    • There is just no better set than the Ascendancy set. They are beneficial for all incursion sites (Headquarter, Assaults and Vanguards, especially Vanguards). The set overall is just great, it will get you into sites faster, bounce faster and move faster between focusses.

Logistics

These sets are specifically picked for logistic pilots. Even the Genolution set is for beginners and mainly Logistic pilots. I would even recommend never getting them, you will get too comfortable without having fitting issues. This sounds nice, but you can perfectly get cap stable (within the fleet) and fit optimal fits without the Genolution set and get another set of implants. 

  • Savior Set
    • Only get these if you are exclusively flying logistic ships, both the Scimitar and the Basilisk and never think about getting into a Battleship. You rep more, what is there not to like
  • Genolution Set
    • Are you new to EVE or have low skills on your pilot? Get this set. It makes fitting things a lot easier without some CPU, powergrid and cap requirements.

4347_64.png.b30303cb437986641a2714913bd46c2d.png Modules

Module priority is important. There are plenty of modules that are more important than others and I will go over every single one of them. Most upgrades for modules only cost a very low amount of ISK and it's good to get them sure, but it's better to safe up ISK and get the more important ones first. 

Battleships

Rough progression again. This doesn't take into account any of the hulls, just the module progression. This can also be on a Hyperion, as getting a Vindicator with a Quad Lif MWD is horrible with capacitor management. It's best to buy some of these together. Personally I would go from a Quad Lif to a Core X-type immediatly, so you don't waste any ISK. I would also buy a Pithum A-type together with say a Faction Web, as this drastically improves on your fit. 

MWD > Faction Damage Mods > MWD (If you don't have the X-type) > Pithum A-Types > Faction Utility > Faction DCU

The famous X-type MWD

  • Quaf-Lif > Domination > X-type

Probably the best upgrade you can buy. Definitely one of the first upgrades you should get. Personally I would skip the Domation and go straight to the X-type. The reason to get it is that it has no negative capacitor capacity bonus. That means even when you have it fitted, there is no penalty to your capacitor, only when activating it. This counts for both the Gist X-type and the Core X-type. The Gist X-type is going up in price at the of writing this and it's only 200m cheaper than the Core X-type which has less capacitor activation cost.

Damage mods

While an A-type Multispectrum sounds nice after a new shiny MWD, get damage mods first. They are far cheaper and buying 4 of them, skyrockets your DPS on your ship. When it comes to these Faction modules, buy the cheapest, they are all the same. They as in:

  • Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer or the Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
  • Ammatar, Dark Blood, Federation Navy, Imperial Navy, Shadow Serpentis or True Sansha Heat Sink.
  • I could be going over Leshak damage mods, but just get Abyssals, preferably T2 rolled better than faction ones.

Pithum A-type Multispectrum Shield Hardener

Yes, ok? Finally, you can get your speciul hardener. For both the Vindicator and the Nightmare there are fits where you can fit an extra module, the double web Vindicator and the Sebo Nightmare with just 1 Pithum A-type. It's good to get that single A-type and buy the extra module. Get this module as a faction upgrade, this is very important. Both of these extra modules can be paid within 1 hour of incursions.

Utility

Before buying your second Pithum A-type, focus a bit more on utility. As I mentioned these Improved fits for the optimal hulls, they also contain other modules you should be getting:

  • Faction Webifier
    • Get the Federation Navy Stasis Webifier for less range, more negative speed velocity bonus.
    • Get the Dark Blood Stasis Webifier for more range, less negative speed velocity bonus. (Preferred)
  • Faction Tracking Computers
    • Federation Navy Tracking Computers
  • Faction Sensor Boosters
    • Federation Navy Sensor Booster
  • Faction Drone Damage Amplifier
    • Whichever is cheapest
      • Dread Guristas, Federation Navy, Imperial Navy, Sentient Drone Damage Amplifier
  • Faction Damage Control
    • Personally I did very long without it, that's also because these were introduced not so long ago. It's only a 200 to 250m upgrade, your choice, get the cheapest one.
      • Sentient, Shadow Serpentis, Syndicate Damage Control.

Your 2nd Pithum A-type Multispectrum Shield Hardener

Yes, it's finally time for that double A-type fit, the Optimal fit. Once you have upgraded the other most important modules on your ship, you can finally look at upgrading those rigs. For both the Vindicator and the Nightmare it's the famous Burst Aerator Rig II and this will add roughly 100 more DPS to your fit. 

Logistics

Logistics are SPEED and SIG tanked, that's what you should upgrade first. I feel like getting Logistics Cruiser V is something you can do in the meanwhile, do both at the same time. Train the Logistics Cruiser to V, train all Capacitor skills, the magic 14 etc while running in the WTM fleet with Logi IV and upgrade your ship with the ISK you get. A rough progression could be made, but the optimal fit is only about 750m for Basilisk and literally only 360m for Scimitar, this isn't much at all and can be made within a day of running. What I want to say is that skills are equally, if not more important than your fit. A Logi Level V cruiser is going to perform much better than a Logi IV blingy one.

Basilisk

Basilisk Minimum fit: 260m~
Basilisk Optimal fit: 750m~

Scimitar

Scimitar IV Minimum: 240m~
Scimitar V Minimum: 240m~
Scimitar V Optimal: 360m~


Screenshot_11.png.c6b6dc11ed76a9e92ce75e7d6ee86a18.png Abyssals

Market: Multiplasmid.space
Abyssal Guide: Abyssal on a Budget by James Baboli

Great! You are here now, you have the optimal fit and are trying to min-max your fit. After getting all of your Faction and Deadspace modules and your implants, all that is left is to buy your abyssal modules. These modules can get a tad bit expensive, but I recently bought some myself and they aren't as expensive as you think. You can get some great modules from T2 roled moduled that are sometimes better than the faction ones. Remember one thing though, penalties. They still apply on Abyssal mods and getting 4 god tier abyssals isn't really going to help you much, contrary to popular believe. Other than damage mods, this is where I leave you. You can abyssal almost all modules on your fit to your liking. I could give some recommendations:

Abysal Damage Mods > Abyssal Utility > Abyssal Tank (FACTION Damage Control, these aren't required)

Credits go to Bear Ursa

  • Get 1 with excellent ROF
  • Get 1 with excellent Damage
  • Get 1 with good ROF and ok damage
  • Get 1 with good damage and ok ROF

This should give you the best modifiers. Also keep the numbers from faction damage modules in the back of your head:

  • Damage Modifier: 1.12 x
  • Rate of Fire Bonus: 11%

All of your Abyssal modules don't have to be above these numbers. Your excellent ROF and excellent Damage abyssals can have both worse damage and ROF respectively. That's all in favour of the stacking penalties. 

 

Edited by Xoceac

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11 hours ago, Xoceac said:

Starter Logistic Pilot > Skill for a Minimum Logistics ship > Starter Basilik/Scimitar > Buy Omega > Skill for Logistics Cruiser V > Buy the Optimal version > Skill level Vs > Buy the Slot 7 to slot 10 implants Get an Implant set (Slot 1 through 6) > Abyssals

Can't fly a t2 ship like a logistics cruiser on an Alpha clone last time I checked ;)

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1 hour ago, Alan Artemisa said:

Can't fly a t2 ship like a logistics cruiser on an Alpha clone last time I checked ;)

 

47 minutes ago, darkstriker01 said:

think he means skill for the ship as far as an alpha can. then go omega to complete the skill req. Then buy a starter logi. 

Still, that's a good point. I'll make note of it and make it more clear what I mean.

Edited by Xoceac
Typos

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Some thoughts for the logi part :

Implants :

  • Genos : Best set for logis, it gives some tank, some speed, and some cap, everything logis lack. Bonus, some more fitting room to accommodate further upgrades.
  • Ascendancies : Achieve absolutely nothing for logis, they are okay if it's also a DPS clone, but dedicated logis should not have Ascendancies.
  • Savior : With regular fits, they will do nothing except capping out the logi. They require some special fitting to be able to sustain more rep power than regular logis (doesn't mean 4 reps stable). It will still only count as a regular logi in fleet, FC will still have 8/9 logis on field. Great set in theory, but makes almost no difference in practice.
  • For logis stable without slots 6 and 8 cap implants, those can be used for speed instead. (Shaqil's Speed Enhancer / Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Navigation NN-606 if you're broke & Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link.

Mods (once optimal fit is done):

  • UPGRADE THAT DAMN PROP MOD. I don't even understand why the optimal fit doesn't have a B-type as prop mod. Every single time we cross an empty TPPH we have to wait for logis it's ridiculous. Every seasoned Scimy pilot should cruise above 1km/sec and Basis close to 800m/sec (with boost), before any implant! Get abysals, they are way cheaper than Deadspace mods. (example: 167.3 % bonus for 250 M isk, the price of a 155% B-type)
  • Basis, with good enough cap skills, can accommodate a SigAmp, which is nice QOL.

And last thing, get your Scimy/Loki stable with all reps on. When the late broadcasting DPS over there is dying, you need some room to overheat and not instantly cap out.

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On 2-1-2021 at 9:47 PM, Yohan Hita said:

Some thoughts for the logi part :

Implants :

  • Genos : Best set for logis, it gives some tank, some speed, and some cap, everything logis lack. Bonus, some more fitting room to accommodate further upgrades.
  • Ascendancies : Achieve absolutely nothing for logis, they are okay if it's also a DPS clone, but dedicated logis should not have Ascendancies.
  • Savior : With regular fits, they will do nothing except capping out the logi. They require some special fitting to be able to sustain more rep power than regular logis (doesn't mean 4 reps stable). It will still only count as a regular logi in fleet, FC will still have 8/9 logis on field. Great set in theory, but makes almost no difference in practice.
  • For logis stable without slots 6 and 8 cap implants, those can be used for speed instead. (Shaqil's Speed Enhancer / Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Navigation NN-606 if you're broke & Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link.

Mods (once optimal fit is done):

  • UPGRADE THAT DAMN PROP MOD. I don't even understand why the optimal fit doesn't have a B-type as prop mod. Every single time we cross an empty TPPH we have to wait for logis it's ridiculous. Every seasoned Scimy pilot should cruise above 1km/sec and Basis close to 800m/sec (with boost), before any implant! Get abysals, they are way cheaper than Deadspace mods. (example: 167.3 % bonus for 250 M isk, the price of a 155% B-type)
  • Basis, with good enough cap skills, can accommodate a SigAmp, which is nice QOL.

And last thing, get your Scimy/Loki stable with all reps on. When the late broadcasting DPS over there is dying, you need some room to overheat and not instantly cap out.

I do not agree with the sentiment that Ascendancies are bad for logistics. I am on the Genolutions are only for beginners side and ascendancies are just better. You can just wait to warp into the site later and be fine. The warping between sites is definitely a benefit. The Saviors is a good point, you do need to worry a bit more about cap, but getting saviors is a last priority with progression, as slot 6 to 10 are more important. With that I mean it's more for pilots that are a bit more experienced. I will write it down. I also prefer cap implants over speed implants still. You have enough speed with a good prop mod. Sig amp is great, will write that down too. 

Scimi/Loki doesn't NEED to be stable with all reps, using more reps brings aggro too, which is bad. I think you are fine with less reps being stable.

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Lokis warp at 4.0 flat before implants. T2 logi are 4.5. When most of the fleet are going ascendancy speeds the loki lags behind pretty noticeably. I will admit genos are pretty great for logi pilots especially, but endgoal you should be looking for a better set imo.

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It's not that Ascendancies are bad for logis, it's that there is zero difference in fleet speed when logis have Ascendancies vs. when they have not, just because of align time. It takes a 100+ AU warp for a Leshak with ascendancies to get enough advance and land on site 1 second before my Loki, because he takes 5 more seconds to align. (it's 40+ AU for Vindies). And it's just fine, because logis want to land 2-3 seconds after DPS anyway.

However, when we have to wait 20 seconds on every room for logis to catch up in an empty TPPH, Genos speed boost makes a difference.

Scimies/Lokis not stable with all reps is part of why WTM has to field 2 more logis than needed on every site ...

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Posted (edited)

There are some advantages for ascendancy+logi. Like catching up with the fleet faster if you were just invited or you were a baddie and afked too much. Which can make EASILY the difference of "fleet can do this tcrc" or "fleet is waiting for a site".

But most importantly if you ever plan to fly any kind of battleship and you are not a 100% dedicated logi only pilot then ascendancy is simply the best.

PS: Also +4 is more than +3. I did the math! :D

Edited by niki lasvegas

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1 hour ago, niki lasvegas said:

Also +4 is more than +3. I did the math!

Someone was watching "Martian"?

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