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Shavock

What can we expect?

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So on the 15th of April, which is 6 days form this post's inception, this update will drop on us:
https://www.eveonline.com/article/q8f2l8/surgical-strike-coming-15-april

TL;DR:
1. 20% reduction in the power of all modules that increase shield or armor resistances. That means energized plating, armor coating, armor hardeners, shield hardeners and shield resistance amps. This will lead to a drop across the board in effective hit points, but the more slots a ship has devoted to resists, the more important the change becomes. (active resist modules are getitng nerfed)

2. Alongside this update to resistance module power, tiericide for shield and armor resist modules is also underway, which you may have noticed beginning to appear on the Singularity test server. The tiericide adjustments are very small in scale and much more focused on sensible naming and organization of the modules in these groups, but you can expect the 20% reduction to be applied after the stats currently in place on Singularity for modules are affected by tiericide changes. (passive resist modules also get massively nerfed)

3. All Tech I Battleships - which includes faction hulls - receive 10% increase to base hp and 30% increase to scan resolution (a smidge more buffer than before)

My question is, can we expect substantial changes to the fits that we will be flying in incursions? Or are we gonna more or less tough it out and rely even more on logi?

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Discussions have just begun following that announcement. Not sure which way things will go. We just found about this as well. Stay tuned.

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Damage controls and the rigs are NOT getting nerfed

Possibly scrapping damage oriented rigs for resist oriented rigs?

 

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The likely outcome would be increased logi amount to run sites, some ships would either be removed from accepted or tank would be reexamined, such as marauders. But nothing is certain at the moment.

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The weird thing is... Hoboleaks indicates that current Sisi build has T2 invulns (and some other resist amps) getting MORE resists... So I'm confused...

I'm kinda exited about the 15% extra dps from Void, though... Optmal vindi should gain 300dps. :) 

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1 minute ago, Lord Sarevok said:

The weird thing is... Hoboleaks indicates that current Sisi build has T2 invulns (and some other resist amps) getting MORE resists... So I'm confused...

The surgical strike patch isn't on SISI yet, the shield hardener tiericide is though which saw T2 and Meta Invulns getting a slight buff. So just -20% of those new resists.

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It's weird cause apparently the surgical strike patch was not offered for public testing, but some slight variations of passive modules were, and the nerf will be dependant on those testing values on them...

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1 hour ago, Shavock said:

Damage controls and the rigs are NOT getting nerfed

 

15 minutes ago, Shavock said:

It's weird cause apparently the surgical strike patch was not offered for public testing, but some slight variations of passive modules were, and the nerf will be dependant on those testing values on them...

Little curious where you are getting this info from.

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The article itself says it all.

They do not mention rigs or damage control, and they are mentioning the modified value on the test servers.

Considering that nobody knew about it, and that there has been no mention about it anywhere until now, it means it was not publicly tested.

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Alongside this update to resistance module power, tiericide for shield and armor resist modules is also underway, which you may have noticed beginning to appear on the Singularity test server.

The tiericide adjustments are very small in scale and much more focused on sensible naming and organization of the modules in these groups, but you can expect the 20% reduction to be applied after the stats currently in place on Singularity for modules are affected by tiericide changes.

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Crunching some numbers, what we'll see is ships with weaker modules like T2 invulns will notice less of a difference than ships with stronger modules like Pith A invulns. This is all relative increase of damage taken (how much MORE damage you will see incoming after April 15th vs now assuming same loadout used).

 

For example the starting Hyperion will see an increase of 27.16% EM damage taken, 11.48% Thermal damage taken, and 16.23% more Kinetic/Explosive damage taken. If we say Sansha does all damage equally (pretty sure they don't though) then the alpha Hyperion will see an average of 17.78% more damage taken after April 15th.

 

Contrast this with an optimal bling battleships (2x Pith A, T1 EM rig, faction DC), they are actually is going to take 33.86% more damage across the board. With the way stacking penalties work, the rig and the shield boosts are going to  contribute the same before and after April 15h on those kind of battleships. Damage controls are not stacking penalized and nor will they be affected in the update so they can be left out of the relative change in damage taken.

 

Post April 15 bling battleships will have a resistance profile that looks like 71.82 / 74.59 / 80.95 / 84.12  vs the current 78.93 / 81.01 / 85.75 / 88.13

Starter battleships will have a resistance profile like 62.42 / 68.57 / 72.31 / 76.92 vs the current 70.45 / 71.81 / 76.17 / 80.15.

One consequence is we'll see the difference between starter ship damage taken and bling battleship damage taken shrink from 40-67% more damage taken to 24%-45% more damage taken.

 

The entry basilisk will see an increase of 22.12% more EM dmg and 7.05% everything else vs the optimal basilisk's 29.14% more EM dmg and 13.68% everything else (32.45% more EM and 17.66% everything else with Pith A instead of a C).

Entry scimitar will take 16.23% more damage and the optimal scimi will take 13.68% more damage (17.66% more with Pith A instead of a C).

 

Now all the T1 and Faction battleships are getting a 10% HP increase that will help logi catch them, this is still a very significant increase of damage taken per second. Without knowing where the 10% HP is going to be applied, it's hard to say what the new shield EHP of our fleets is going to look like.  But looking at rough approximations and assuming base shield HP is increased by 10% (the best possible outcome for us), looks like any ship that now has over 50% resistance is going to lose EHP and any ship under 50% resistance is going to gain EHP. Potentially anywhere from 6% to 18% shield EHP loss depending on damage type and battleship. If CCP decides to divide the 10% HP increase over shields/armor/hull, then the shield EHP loss is worse. However, since our armor and hull resist profile shouldn't be changing with the modules we fit, having more of the 10% HP increase go to armor and hull over shields should mitigate the overall EHP loss.

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On sisi right now and the pithum A invuln has a nerf to it, down to 37.5... played with the rigs a little, changed the t2 hybrid aerator to a t1. Added t2 shield extender and em-screen.

Current fit on tranq

https://gyazo.com/308f226a82a5b4734a5597404e323678

Current fit with invuln nerf on sisi

https://gyazo.com/697706f19b900cc324f01530153c2b2b

nerfed invuln fit with modified rigs on sisi

https://gyazo.com/8c708a3f76e006fba809d390d4d1198c

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the surgical strike update isn't on sisi yet though?

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2 minutes ago, Xarena Rythe said:

On sisi right now and the pithum A invuln has a nerf to it, down to 37.5... played with the rigs a little, changed the t2 hybrid aerator to a t1. Added t2 shield extender and em-screen.

Current fit on tranq

https://gyazo.com/308f226a82a5b4734a5597404e323678

Current fit with invuln nerf on sisi

https://gyazo.com/697706f19b900cc324f01530153c2b2b

nerfed invuln fit with modified rigs on sisi

https://gyazo.com/8c708a3f76e006fba809d390d4d1198c

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the surgical strike update isn't on sisi yet though?

That would certainly match a Pith A nerfed by 20%. Sounds like that part of the Surgical Strike update has made it. What about the other invulns?

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Pithum A-type 37.5     Pith B-type 35      Pith C-type 32.5

Gistum A-type 35     Gist B-type 32.5     Gist C-type 30

T2 Invuln 26

Estamels 40%     Vespas 37.5     Thons 35     Kaikkas 32.5

Dread G/CN 30     Dom 26

T1 Invuln 20     Compact/Enduring 23.2     

'Posse' 26

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can Leshak flown after this nurf? even entry fit used Pith-B invuls, which now can't achieve without officer modules.

Auto Targeting System I
Large I-ax Enduring Remote Armor Repairer
Large I-ax Enduring Remote Armor Repairer
Large Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator II
 Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Thukker Large Shield Extender
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
 Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Sentient Damage Control
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
 Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
  Nanite Repair Paste x50
Federation Navy Ogre x5
Occult L x1
Mystic L x1

 

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1 minute ago, Xarena Rythe said:

Pithum A-type 37.5     Pith B-type 35      Pith C-type 32.5

Gistum A-type 35     Gist B-type 32.5     Gist C-type 30

T2 Invuln 26

Estamels 40%     Vespas 37.5     Thons 35     Kaikkas 32.5

Dread G/CN 30     Dom 26

T1 Invuln 20     Compact/Enduring 23.2     

'Posse' 26

Looks like T2 is going up to the suspected 32.5 then getting nerfed by 20%. I think that's due to the incoming shield tiericide for hardeners? If so then the starter battleships will come out a little better than I expected after the nerf. The bling battleships and the optimal logi ships up above will take the same hit though.

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