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Shokre O'Corwi

Fitting a Signal Amplifier to a Basi

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Greetings!

Ever since that one TCRC a few days back, where I had my cap chain target locked, the DDD locked, 8 additional people each of which was receiving damage and new shield broadcasts comming in which I couldn't lock (and had no idea who to unlock), I was thinking about fitting a Signal Amplifier. I realize that situations like the one just described are rare, but I'd rather not leave it to chance.

So let's get started... :)

 

Problem:

Wanting to have more than 10 targets locked on my optimal fit Basilisk (differences from official fit are T2 cap transmitters and a deadspace AB (same activation cost as faction)).

 

Possible solutions:

  1. Fit a Signal Amplifier instead of Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
  2. Fit a Signal Amplifier instead of Damage Control II

 

Solution #1 cons:

Fit is a bit short on power grid and needs an Abyssal Large Shield Extender. Besides spending a bit of ISK, this is not really a that big of a problem.

My Basi would have 2.282 fewer EHP (45.494 EHP without boosts, instead of 47.780 EHP).

The fit is no longer cap stable with 1 incoming Large Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter!
My cap delta with this fit variation is Δ -64,2 GJ/s (-303,7%). I have 2 cap implants (EO-606 and EM-806), and all cap related skills at level 5 except Sensor Linking (which is at level 4, and training it to 5 would raise the delta to -64,1 GJ/s; still not enough). Simulating the whole setup in Pyfa shows I'd have 8m30s of cap (or be stable with when not running the 4th Remote Shield Booster).

 

Solution #2 cons:

My Basi would have 7.159 fewer EHP (40.621 EHP without boosts, instead of 47.780 EHP). Resists would still be above 70% (they'd change from 75/90/85/75 to 71/89/83/71).

 

My conclusion:

Unless I've forgotten something crucial, solution #2 seems to have much milder drawbacks. My Scimi, for comparison, has 18.122 EHP and it manages to survive just fine (albeit the shield sometimes resembles a windscreen wiper).

For solution #1 to be cap stable, the incoming Remote Capacitor Transmitter would have to be T2 (is there any possibility of changing the fits soon?).

 

What does everybody think about this?

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Good post. 

This is actually part of a larger discussion the logi branch had about 2 weeks ago regarding suggested/required fits due to the recent remote cap changes. 

Currently our R&r says the dc2 or better is required, the pds is optional and can be swapped under our current R&r as you requsted

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Get the L badge then you can fly non-srpable snowflake fit if the FC allows ;D

Otherwise bling with items or implants so you can drop the PDS for the sigamp. Careful tho' its a bit addictive.

Also for the initial problem: if you ever run into it just unlock the the ships who wont die anyway, just has 1 or 2 trolls. Use your best judgement: Usually there are only 3 ships or less that are actually in danger the rest just has 1 or 2 frig or 1 cruiser.

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4 hours ago, darkstriker01 said:

Good post.

Thanks.

4 hours ago, darkstriker01 said:

This is actually part of a larger discussion the logi branch had about 2 weeks ago regarding suggested/required fits due to the recent remote cap changes.

Fingers crossed for fits requiring T2 Cap Transmitters. It's not that long of a train, and it'd help a lot. I kinda think I'll wait a bit with the 12 targets fit, to see if any fitting changes happen.

2 hours ago, niki lasvegas said:

Also for the initial problem: if you ever run into it just unlock the the ships who wont die anyway, just has 1 or 2 trolls. Use your best judgement: Usually there are only 3 ships or less that are actually in danger the rest just has 1 or 2 frig or 1 cruiser.

That's kinda what I ended up doing, but it was a bit "panicky" at the moment. Nobody died in the end :)

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I've been looking at ways to get the sig amp onto a basi with T2 cap transmitters, and yea, it's really hard with incoming meta. I'd like to see what you're starting with exactly.

The main thing is: do you have one or two T2 transfers? I haven't found a way to have both T2 transfers and a sigamp, while being within fitting restrictions and stable with incoming meta transfer.

However, I have found that: if you use one meta (for the cap chain, per current standard) and one T2 (for the fleet) cap transfer, (along with Republic Fleet LSE, which has the lowest PG of the faction ones) that solves your fitting problem, and alleviates the cap problem, leaving you at -63.1 delta. From there, abyssals are still your savior; if you get a perfect (and I mean absolutely perfect) activation cost roll, you are at -62.2 delta. Sensor Linking V will then be useful to buy you that extra 0.1 buffer... it's super tight, but can be done. That AB will not be cheap, though if you're willing to focus exclusively on the activation cost, and sacrifice the rest, it might be reasonable...

But there's one more option: another implant. Not sure what's in your slot 7, but ES-706 (should be available from CONCORD) will reduce the activation cost of the cap transfers by 6%. With the mixed transfers and stock faction other mods that puts you at -61.5 delta. I think that's your best bet, if you can spare your slot 7 implant.

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Remember with that smaller EHP number, the Scimi has about a third the sig radius and half again more speed than the basi.

Quote

Also for the initial problem: if you ever run into it just unlock the the ships who wont die anyway, just has 1 or 2 trolls. Use your best judgement: Usually there are only 3 ships or less that are actually in danger the rest just has 1 or 2 frig or 1 cruiser.

Logi Roulette. Easy to learn, hard to master.

Edited by Jedediah Arndtz
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3 hours ago, FlameTounge said:

I've been looking at ways to get the sig amp onto a basi with T2 cap transmitters, and yea, it's really hard with incoming meta. I'd like to see what you're starting with exactly.

If I fit both meta cap transmitters (non-modified Optimal fit), then with my implants I'm barely cap stable with an incoming meta cap transmitter (Δ -62,1 GJ/s). Might go with that just to try it out, but keep modules for both fits, in case FC would prefer the other one.

3 hours ago, FlameTounge said:

The main thing is: do you have one or two T2 transfers? I haven't found a way to have both T2 transfers and a sigamp, while being within fitting restrictions and stable with incoming meta transfer.

However, I have found that: if you use one meta (for the cap chain, per current standard) and one T2 (for the fleet) cap transfer, (along with Republic Fleet LSE, which has the lowest PG of the faction ones) that solves your fitting problem, and alleviates the cap problem, leaving you at -63.1 delta. From there, abyssals are still your savior; if you get a perfect (and I mean absolutely perfect) activation cost roll, you are at -62.2 delta. Sensor Linking V will then be useful to buy you that extra 0.1 buffer... it's super tight, but can be done. That AB will not be cheap, though if you're willing to focus exclusively on the activation cost, and sacrifice the rest, it might be reasonable...

Near-perfect one is 800m ISK, and a perfect roll one isn't available for sale currently. But I imagine it'd be unreasonably expensive, so no :D

3 hours ago, FlameTounge said:

But there's one more option: another implant. Not sure what's in your slot 7, but ES-706 (should be available from CONCORD) will reduce the activation cost of the cap transfers by 6%. With the mixed transfers and stock faction other mods that puts you at -61.5 delta. I think that's your best bet, if you can spare your slot 7 implant.

Have Ogdin's Eye Coordinator Enhancer there. I don't have a separate logi clone, this is the same clone I use for both my Vindi and my Leshak.

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7 minutes ago, Shokre O'Corwi said:
3 hours ago, FlameTounge said:

But there's one more option: another implant. Not sure what's in your slot 7, but ES-706 (should be available from CONCORD) will reduce the activation cost of the cap transfers by 6%. With the mixed transfers and stock faction other mods that puts you at -61.5 delta. I think that's your best bet, if you can spare your slot 7 implant.

Have Ogdin's Eye Coordinator Enhancer there. I don't have a separate logi clone, this is the same clone I use for both my Vindi and my Leshak.

Ah, yes. I know that feeling. I have only one clone as well, which does it all; logi, battleships, boosting... 

Yea, two meta transfers should be stable with the sigamp straight swap from the PDS.

To get the one T2 in there, for the AB, I was going off of the faction / Corelum line. That 800m is on an Analog AB, which is the same base speed (the one in question is actually a bit faster), but is actually even better than my expectations. That one would leave you at -62.1 with Sensor Linking 4. There's another one based on a Corelum C-type (on contract for 500m) that's a 42.2 activation, which would still put you at about -62.2 in pyfa with your two cap implants... so either of those would get you there.

Dunno if the 500m is more palletable, but it's there. 

However you do it, I think the sig amp is a worthy addition. Getting a T2 transfer for the fleet is always appreciated, but if you can't swing them both, I'd personally run the sig amp.

I look forward to seeing you in my fleet again. 

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Went with the cheap solution for now (meta transmitters) while I do some more theory-crafting in Pyfa and/or catch a not-so-expensive AB.

 

Thanks everybody for the inputs!

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I'm running synth mindflood/dual 6% cap implants in my basi until/unless we upgrade to t2 xfers. Spent about 150m total on abyssal prop mod/LSE. Slightly tankier,slightly fatter, but I've got a sigamp and I'm stable with a meta incoming. The slot 7 cap xfer implant is also something for people to keep in mind for stability, and option for a slot 6 fitting implant. Though I'm technically stable without the mindflood, but just barely.
image.thumb.png.11dfeb64ca04a3ac6f1a691ce54ba07e.png

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I like that fit! My one is -0.01 cap unstable with meta incoming:( what you get for building tight.

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