A Question About SRP

[Lightsong the Bold 1]

So the question came up today in WTM local about how coverage levels for SRP funcion.

My understanding prior to the discussion was that coverage levels were for the amount destroyed. (e.g. If you had 2 billion coverage and your 3 billion ship dropped 1 billion in loot you would still receive full coverage because the destroyed value was below 2 billion)

After this conversation I am more inclined to think that coverage is based on total value (in other words, the SRP corporation considers the value of modules that were returned as part of the SRP payment, and in the above example, you would be paid out only 1 billion for your 2 billion of coverage)

Whichever of these is true, I think it could use some written clarification. The most detailed explanation of the SRP I have seen on the forum is the rookie guide, which leaves this detail completely vague. The bio on the SRP corporation is similarly vague.

[Tallon Darkwyrm 34]

The payout formula works kind of like this:

Payout = ( (killmail total value) - (stuff dropped) ) < (coverage level maximum)

To explain a little more in detail, let's says your killmail says total value is 2 billion. You are paid into 2 billion coverage and your drops were returned to you. Our SRP manager determines that your module drops are worth 500 million. 2 billion - 500 million = 1.5 billion. 

Your payout cannot exceed your coverage level. If your payout ended up being 2.2 billion and you're only covered for 2 billion,  you're only getting 2 billion. 

[Vargon Penken 63]

It's based on the value of your loss mail Market Prices. If you paid ten mil. You lost a three bill ship and the loss mail market price reads that you've lost two and a half bil you're only going to get the two bil. 

The second statement is flawed. The loss mail does not count the dropped modules. As they have not been destroyed. Look at zkill they have the little formula going on. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Vargon Penken

[Lightsong the Bold 1]

17 minutes ago, Vargon Penken said:

It's based on the value of your loss mail. If you paid ten mil. You lost a three bill ship and the loss mail reads that you've lost two and a half bil you're only going to get the two bil. 

The second statement is flawed. The loss mail does not count the dropped modules. As they have not been destroyed. Look at zkill they have the little formula going on. 

This helps a lot and is consistent with how it had been explained to me before so it sounds like I had it right to begin with.

The calculation a few people were suggesting was used would only pay out 1.5 billion in such a scenario, as the value of returned loot 500mil + the 1.5 SRP would equal the coverage level.

Glad to know that's not how it's done, though it still would be nice to get a more specific wording for that in the SRP corp bio with all the other teems and conditions

[Jeremy 45]

Just going to take a moment to expand on this explanation fully.  When a ship is lost, we look at the total worth listed in the kill mail to begin with.  As shown in this image, the value on this example is 2,250,061,899 ISK.

So if I had only 2 billion ISK in coverage, then I would not get that extra 250 million back.  However, the process doesn't end here.

Next we look at what dropped, and determine what the commanders where able to loot and contract back to the pilot. Any drops that were contracted back to the pilot will be removed from the value of the payout. So in the example killmail above, if 1 billion ISK worth of  stuff was looted and contracted back to me, I would get paid out 1,250,061,899 ISK.

If for some reason, the dropped loot was not able to be recovered and returned to me, then it would not be removed from the payout, and I would receive a payout of 2 billion ISK. Which, while also less than the value of my loss, is the maximum amount of coverage I had.

The point being, that you should be able to take the payout you receive, combine that with the loot that was contracted back to you, and rebuild your ship just like it was before you experienced the rapid unexpected disassembly of your previous ship.

[Lightsong the Bold 1]

Okay so this thread is now just leading me to think that this is actually a very seriously vague thing that needs to be clarified if officers/ FCs are possibly dissagreeing about how this works, because if that is the way its done Jeremy then Vargun's math doesn't check out, and in his example the payout would not be a full 2 billion, but rather 1.5 billion as I mentioned.

Just a simple "your coverage level covers you up to that amount for the (white/red) value"

I think this is a pretty important clarification to make because if the coverage is only good for total value and not just destroyed value, there are probably a lot of pilots purchasing lower SRP coverage who think they are going to be okay if they lose a ship but may recieve next to nothing.

A logi for example who dropped over 300 million in loot would recieve 0 SRP unless they paid in that day.

[Vargon Penken 63]

5 hours ago, Jeremy said:

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Jeremy said:

 

 

You should show the rest of that loss mail. 

One day when I get back to my actual computer, I'll shows you all. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Vargon Penken

[Izumi Uchiya MD 214]

32 minutes ago, Lightsong the Bold said:

Okay so this thread is now just leading me to think that this is actually a very seriously vague thing that needs to be clarified if officers/ FCs are possibly dissagreeing about how this works, because if that is the way its done Jeremy then Vargun's math doesn't check out, and in his example the payout would not be a full 2 billion, but rather 1.5 billion as I mentioned.

Just a simple "your coverage level covers you up to that amount for the (white/red) value"

I think this is a pretty important clarification to make because if the coverage is only good for total value and not just destroyed value, there are probably a lot of pilots purchasing lower SRP coverage who think they are going to be okay if they lose a ship but may recieve next to nothing.

A logi for example who dropped over 300 million in loot would recieve 0 SRP unless they paid in that day.

Sorry, these guys have a couple details wrong. Killmail values vary drastically from trade-hub prices, and we do not use them when paying for losses. We will fix the corp MOTD to make this more clear.

We calculate the value to be paid from actual market prices. We pay ISK (up to the coverage maximum) for "lost value" meaning stuff that is destroyed or drops that cannot be recovered (lost or stolen). If anything drops, we will try to recover it and give it back to you; something that you dropped and received back was not truly "lost", so we do not pay for those items since you got them back good as new. Anything that is destroyed or lost, we pay back with isk based on the trade hub market price of the destroyed stuff. We pay until we have replaced every item that was destroyed/lost, or you reach the coverage cap that you paid for (2b, etc). We do not subtract the value of drops from your coverage cap. Allow me to give a couple examples.

A Basilisk that costs 700m total to purchase in Jita dies and drops 150m in loot. That pilot receives her loot back, and then there is 550m of destroyed/lost value. With free logi SRP of 300m, she receives (in addition to the returned drops) 300m isk, which means she has a 250m shortfall.  If she paid for our basic SRP coverage (10m for 2b coverage) then she would have received 550m isk + her drops. Collectively, this completely reimburses her 700m ship. She is not paid more than she lost, but exactly what she needs to, between a trip to Jita and using her returned drops, exactly replace her ship.

For another example, a 3b Vindicator dies and drops 750m of loot, having paid for basic coverage. We return the loot and pay him the full 2b, since he effectively lost 2.25b.  We do not subtract the value of his loot from the 2b payout, but working backwards from the total value of his entire intact ship.

If equations are more your thing, for someone with 2b of coverage, ISK Paid = (Total Cost of entire ship, rigs, mods, charges, etc) - (Value of drops returned), with a max ISK paid of 2b.

As a general rule of thumb, about a third of your total ship value will be your hull and rigs, which are always destroyed when you die, and the remaining 2/3 will be mods, which have a 50% chance of dropping, so you want to cover at least 2/3 the value of your ship. Sometimes the loot fairy is nice and other times not so kind, so for safety most pilots prefer to cover the full value. Compared to the site payouts, SRP is pretty affordable.

[niki lasvegas 537]

Math is hard

Ask me tomorrow in fleet if there is still something unclear  But Izumi pretty much covered it.

[Lightsong the Bold 1]

Yeah izumi covered everything very nicely

[Tallon Darkwyrm 34]

12 hours ago, Izumi Uchiya MD said:

If equations are more your thing, for someone with 2b of coverage, ISK Paid = (Total Cost of entire ship, rigs, mods, charges, etc) - (Value of drops returned), with a max ISK paid of 2b.

This is exactly the equation that I stated in my post