Zane Chakaid

Triglavian Invasions - The Scoop so Far

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Posted (edited)

We're still trying to figure out the new Triglavian Invasion content, so there's still many unanswered questions.  However, here’s what we do know:

 Triglavian Incursions spawn only in highsec.  The content is intended for fleet as small as 2 and as large as 15.  Some sites will be similar to Incursions in that they will award LP and isk, however, they haven’t started spawning yet.  Right now, we’ve been killing roaming NPC fleets.  The isk in that comes from Triglavian Salvage and the loot drops of named rats (Zorya).

 Roaming fleet difficulty is determine by the system (Perimeter < Adjacent < Foothold < ???).  We’ve pretty much been face tanking them, so recommend logi numbers are currently 2x -> 2-3x -> 3-4x -> ???.  Hopefully, we’ll be able to get those down with time.  Switches happen fast, and Logi appear to be very high on the agro table –PRE LOCK YOUR LOGI SQAUD!!!  Naturally, have your logi consolidate agro before warping in a salvager.

Most Trig rats do 60-70% Thermal and 30-40% Explosive damage.  However, Liminal variants can do EM or Kinetic damage.  Thermal is the most important resist to beef up, however, it is still recommended to beef up all resists.

Roaming fleets can and will call for reinforcements, and, of course, their damage will spool up.  They can warp to Gates, Citadels, NPC Stations, POCO’s, Asteroid Belts, and (allegedly) anywhere else -including unaligned safe spots.  As far as I know, scramming rats don’t spawn on gates, but they still have managed to kill many a traveling pilot.  DO NOT move freighters and Bowheads through invaded systems.  The rats can actually kill a freighter and the system invasion effects can reduce your hull HP by 15 to 40% depending on the system.   Naturally, this can dramatically reduce the number of gankers required to kill you -and I’d bet money that they are currently developing the tactics required to exploit this mechanic.  I know for a fact rats don't pod in perimeter systems.  I assume that they don't pod in other systems, but I have not verified that.

Rats move fast, and will swarm their target.  We’ve been rolling with brawling fleets.  Kiting fleets could work, but they would have difficulty securing loot.  Mixed fleets would run into problems if a sniper drew agro because it would cause all the rats to burn away from the brawlers.  Naturally, brawlers are currently preferred over snipers.

Rats Neut, Damp, Weapon Disrupt, TP, Web, & Scram. Once again rats move really fast, but have fat sigs.  Naturally, webs do more for damage application than target painters.  Scrams also apparently stop Named rats from warping off, but I haven’t verified this yet.  Because Rats swarm and scram, AB is preferred over MWD for now.  Weapon disruption isn’t that big of a problem because logi currently keeps agro about 95% of the time.  Damps aren’t a problem because logi tend to be really close to each other.  Combat caps can easily deal with neut pressure, but you still might want to prioritize cap batteries over cap rechargers.

 There’s more, but that’s already a wall of text.  Check out this info dump for more information.

Oh, WTM is currently not doing anything official with the Triglavian Invasions, but we have a lot of community members unofficially getting involved –including many experienced and skill command core members.  We’ve been coordinating our efforts over Slack (command core only), but I’m going to try to get these guys to start coordinating more in the WTM Events section of the forums so that interested line members can get in on the fun.  We're currently only running science fleets for now (and not running for profit), but it’s a break from the grind and good fun.  If you’re interested, check out this thread for scheduled fleets.

It's hard to say for certain, because we've had more spank in our last two fleets, but it really seems like the rat dps was nerfed.  Regardless, I updated the recommended logi numbers to account for this.  Do note, that additional changes do appear to be inbound.

 

Edited by Zane Chakaid

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Posted (edited)

5cf23b3de9acc_NPCFleetDamageProfile.png.9c06412b9b5dbca66a5e5713bce3deac.png

I went out scanning down Roaming Fleets in a Foothold system during the Scouts have been Spotted, Conduits are forming phase of the invasion.  With an average fleet composition and damage profiles for individual rats, I was able to derive the average damage profile for Triglavian fleets.  I was kind of surprised that the EM and Kinetic damage was so low, and decided to see what I would get from my damage log for when I lost a basi.  With my resist profile in hand, I derived the raw damage applied to me throught the fight.  I think the EM and Kin damage is higher here because the FC was prioritizing ships (i.e. Starving) that only had Entropic Disintegrators fit.

Limitations: My sample size is kind of small (1 fight's worth of damage for the damage log, but I held agro for most of it, and 15 fleets from scanning (some of which were being chewed on by players).   Also, CCP might tweak things, and the different content (i.e. the sites) might spawn fleets of different compositions.

Edited by Zane Chakaid
Damage Log Profile added up to 111% because I only divided each by the sum of 3 damage types (and not all 4). Fixed now. All my other math double checked.

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Posted (edited)

My observation on the Triglavian Fleets; is that any form of Remote Assistance or Electronic Warfare generate more threat (agro) than pure damage does, this is why Logi is and will be their primary target, as Zane has explained, this is inevitably exploited to lessen the impact on the fleet's DPS. That being said, this could very well change when we get the other stages of the Invasion, the conduits.

Edited by Elathy Maricadie

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Its just a matter of application, Elathy. HACs and such dont have the paper dps to apply and contest remote rep/cap.

niki [3:53 PM]
btw i only participated in one fleet, but seems like normal agro table to me. my vindi often got the damage agro switch. its just a matter of applied damage. if no one is applying enough dmg thats when the trig will agro the logi cuz of the applied reps+caps

 

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Well the new Sisi build has the Liminals shooting different missiles, so it'll probably get tweaked at the next patch, anyway. :)

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5 minutes ago, Lord Sarevok said:

Well the new Sisi build has the Liminals shooting different missiles, so it'll probably get tweaked at the next patch, anyway. :)

They already do.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Elathy Maricadie said:

They already do.

Your post has them shooting Sourge and Mjolnir. On hoboleaks it looks like it's changing to new missiles called Majorana, who do 40 EM + 40 Kin for light and 80 EM + 80 Kin for heavies.

 

7 minutes ago, Dedee Rediculous said:

Did they spawn actual invasions?

 

If you mean on Sisi: not to my knowledge. I'm looking here: https://www.hoboleaks.space/

Edited by Lord Sarevok

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2 hours ago, Lord Sarevok said:

Your post has them shooting Sourge and Mjolnir. On hoboleaks it looks like it's changing to new missiles called Majorana, who do 40 EM + 40 Kin for light and 80 EM + 80 Kin for heavies.

ok that makes more sense.

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I have also seen and experienced bumping machariels on gates/stations. They always bump the targeted ship by Trigs. Don't warp around if you cant tank the roaming fleets.

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Posted (edited)

Looks like Phase 2 of the Triglavians' Invasion is finally here:

 

PATCH NOTES FOR EVE ONLINE: INVASION - 2019-06-05.1

RELEASED ON WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3TH 2019

Features & Changes:

Missions & NPCs:

The Triglavian Collective have escalated their presence within the Hi-Security regions of New Eden. Reports about Abyssal conduits have recently surfaced. The time to fight back is now.

Source: https://www.eveonline.com/article/ps0g7i/patch-notes-for-eve-online-invasion

 

I wonder if the "Conduits" has same limitations as the ones you spawn by using Filament(s), that being Fleets of Frigates and/or Cruisers(?)

Edited by Elathy Maricadie

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Ran foothold roaming fleets and conduits with 2 basi's today (started w/ 4 dps).  Efficiency was about 67 mil/hour + LP, but we also started in adjacent and worked up to footholds.  8 spawned in that time, and we were able to do about 6 of them (iirc).  Ore spawns in conduits, and they remain closed for about an hour.  Mining alts should increase isk efficiency (45% mining laser cycle time and new fancy ores).  Ty said that he never saw rats warp back into conduit after it was closed, but I can't say for certain.  Also, Triax brought a polarized Mach, and I was able to keep it alive.  I don't know if straight glass cannons are the best idea, but we could probably scale back on tank.  My only concern is that those rats have most definitely been nerfed once already, and now no leshaks are spawning.  Thus, I'm wondering if CCP permanently adjusted the difficulty, temporarily did so, or if it has something to do the invasion stage (in which case we need to figure it out so that we don't waltz into something that we aren't prepared for).

Oh and it's probably better to roll with local tanks for the time being (although I can't tell you exactly how strong they need to be).  I'm ballparking here, but you probably need 8 DPS in fleet to offset the dps loss of having two pilots fly a pair of basi's.  And yes, this is contrary to my initial assessment where I said that rat damage was too strong for local tanks to handle and that logi was required.

Conduits are similar to FW Plexes in that they only show up on the probe scanner until someone warps to them.  After which, they'll show up on overviews.  3 waves.  Kill all rats to trigger the next wave.  Mostly frigs and dessies.  Recommend killing [Fleet Safety] (1) Anchoring and (2) Starving, then [Fleet Efficiency] (3) Renewing, (4) Tangling, (5) Ghosting, and then free fire on whatever is in optimal as the wave is no longer poses any sort of risk and has lost most of it's repping power so they melt fast.  Isk & LP payout, plus salvage.  We were able to tear through the rats in short order, but you can't farm them like incursion sites as no new conduits will spawn for about an hour.  

Also, as someone else had previously noted (can't remember who), the ninja looters are much more uncommon further away from major trade hubs.  We only had one ninja salvager pester us for about 30 minutes.

Of course it will depend on the prices that loot and salvage settles at, and it will certainly require more effort (spreadsheeting, hauling, mining, scanning, salvaging, traveling, etcetera), but I'd imagine that a better FC than me can get efficiency up to 100/mil an hour with what's currently spawning, and hopefully even higher with major conduits and whatnot.  So... I'm not exactly happy with CCP for nerfing the incursion spawn rate.  I mean, I would rather be running this content because I wanted to, and not because I had to, but I think we can do okay with these.  So, we'll see what happens as the content escalates.

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I tried running the minor conduits in a Rattlesnake passive tank and active fits with the active fit I tried also using a high grade crystal set with omega, im not quite sure what im doing wrong with fit or running site focusing neuting triglavians first. Any suggestions on how to run these sites solo would be appreciate either in a rattlesnake if its possible or another ship.  

[Rattlesnake, *Rattlesnake]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Missile Guidance Computer II

Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Gecko x1
Republic Fleet Valkyrie x5
Salvage Drone I x5

Missile Precision Script x1
Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x4894

[Rattlesnake, *Rattlesnake]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Pith X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
True Sansha Stasis Webifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II

Gecko x2
Salvage Drone I x5

Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x5899
Strong Blue Pill Booster x4

 

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I'm not saying the current ship/fitting strategy is the best way to go, but if you wanted to optimize it:

1) You have plenty of options in your lows, depending on how much you want to spend and whether or not you can use a CPU implant.  I kept things cheaper, but you can get a respectable boost to your DPS by spending more on some combination of C3-X, C3-A, and Cal Navy Ballistic Control Systems.

2) Also in the lows, the Dark Blood Cap Power Relays are only 13 mil each, give you more cap, and might just free up those last few tf that you need to make the fit work.

3) Regardless, make sure you free up enough CPU for Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers.  They do have painfully long reload time (just like Rapid Lights), but their increased DPS means that you'll be fighting against fewer enemy rep cycles.  For example, if the enemy has 1,000 EHP and gets remote reps of 100 EHP/s, a 200 DPS ship will basically be doing 100 DPS, and is going to need 10 seconds to kill the rat.  On the other hand, a 300 DPS ship will basically be doing 200 DPS, and can kill the rat in 5 seconds.  So, in our hypothetical example, a 50% paper increase in DPS effectively results in twice the damage!  Another way to think of it is like paying off a credit card.  If you payment just covers interest and just a little bit of the principle, you're going to be paying it off forever.  If you want to dramatically reduce your interest, and how much you have to pay overall, you need to eat into that principle as much as possible with each payment.

4) if you still have some CPU left over, swap the compact DC for a T2 variant.  It won't give you a lot of tank, but if you have the CPU, you might as well.

5) Finally, the Agency Hardshell drugs are relatively cheap, have no side effects, and take up booster slot 11.  They aren't as powerful as a strong Blue pill, but they can be used in conjunction with one if needed.

Hope that helps.

[Rattlesnake, *Rattlesnake]

Spoiler

 

Damage Control II
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
C3-A 'Hivaa Saitsuo' Ballistic Control System
C3-A 'Hivaa Saitsuo' Ballistic Control System
C3-A 'Hivaa Saitsuo' Ballistic Control System

Pith X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
True Sansha Stasis Webifier

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
[Empty High slot]
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II


Gecko x1
Salvage Drone I x5


Strong Blue Pill Booster
Agency 'Hardshell' TB9 Dose IV


Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x5899

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Major conduits consist of the following:

1 initial wave which appears about 10 secs after landing on grid.

3 timed waves.

2 additional waves once most other ships are cleared (triggers unknown).

 

Each wave consists of about 15-25 ships ranging from frigates to battleships.

3 basilisks is sufficient to rep the site.

 

Once spawned, the triglavians will starburst out to about 450 km then warp directly on top of whomever they are aggroing. 

If anyone inside the room burns away from the rest of the fleet, the triglavians may starburst away and warp to that person. It is recommended that pilots stay grouped together.

Edited by Tallon Darkwyrm

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