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Posted (edited)

Hey guys!

Just wanted to share my POV about the Leshak, and provide a basic guideline about how you should fly this beautiful snowflake in a WTM fleet.
So here goes nothing!

 

GENERAL TIPS:

  1. With every guide the first general and golden rule should always be: "USE COMMON SENSE, PLEASE!" So there you have it. Its not hard. You just have to think a little bit :)
  2. Second golden rule is: "ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR FC!" Maybe there is something unusual thing going on and fleet needs to react and adjust. Please do so!
  3. The Leshak is not a "DPS", neither a "SNIPER" ship. Its a snowflake. If you want to fly it, then please fly it properly. Basically you will need to anchor
    yourself all the time, not following AAA or VVV around. Most of the times you need to shoot out of tagging order, something different.
    I really do expect all my Leshaks to actually put effort into flying their ships as long as they are in my fleet.
  4. Getting The Precursor Battleship Level up to 5 is super important. Its an amazing bump to your efficiency. For real. I mean sure, weapon spec to 5 is nice
    too, but you can leave it temporarily at 4 in order to train Battleship Level 5. Its way more important!
  5. Always try to use the Occult ammo. You should use Mystic only when you enter a pocket and you are burning into position, or if you are finishing a wave and
    you are prepping for the next one but still removing the remnant of the wave.
  6. This ship is all about its weapon spool-up. You should aim to shoot a single ship continuously as long as possible, preferably with Occult.
    Its basically a guessing game: you need to guess the ship that normally would die last on the grid. And try to shoot that ship with Occult.
    When it dies you just simply reset the game.
    Exceptions:
    - Spawn Trigger Ships: you need to exclude those from this game for obvious reasons.
    - Outuni Mesen: if there are 2 or 3 on the grid at the same time then they are just too dangerous to completely ignore them in a shield fleet.
     Even if you are a Leshak. So they come before the game.
  7. Don't be scared to break the spool-up of the Mystic if you know you can shoot with Occult around 20 times or more after the switch on the same boat.
  8. Don't be afraid of burning as much as you want. This ship has mad cap stability. Use it!
  9. Keep at range 15 km on your main target is a really easy way to keep the spool going until they go poof. Especially if they are burning somewhere.
    If they are 20 or more km away, that's where you can start worrying about breaking the spool with Occult.
    I'd suggest to adjust your position if they are more than 20 km away.
  10. You should always shoot something. There is no excuse to ever stop shooting with this ship. You have everything in order to do so:
    You can switch ammo instantly, you can always burn whenever you are not in range cuz you have the cap for it, you have somewhat decent tracking to even try your luck on frigs and you have a ridiculously short cycle time. Jack of all trades.
  11. In my opinion utility high slots are not important for the Leshak in a WTM fleet. Not saying you will never use them, but chances are you will probably never use them. :) So if you are missing some fitting space (PG or more likely CPU) you can try to adjust your fitting by using up less on the high slots.
    They are just sitting there looking pretty anyway, and getting heat damage in case you are overloading the gun.
    Nevertheless if anyone feels like stuffing one or maybe two remote armors to utility highs feel free to do so! The ship indeed has a bonus for it. Just be careful about the tight CPU fitting limit. But more importantly as a Leshak you should never broadcast for cap if you are not neuted, so please dont cap yourself out with them!
  12. Speaking of overloading: in case of contest you can easily continuously overheat your single gun during almost (if not) the whole site!
    You can train relevant skills for better results of course, but just try it out! Experience your personal limit with it! Just don't burn out your gun pretty please.
  13. Depending on fleet comp and fleet numbers you always want to adjust your targets. I know. This is actually "hard".
    But after a site or two you will get a good feeling about your fleet. If snipers need help, you shoot sniper targets. If DPS needs help, you shoot DPS targets.
    Its not a big deal if you make a mistake with this, don't worry. As long as you are shooting, you are good!
    But properly adjusting yourself for fleet needs with a Leshak means shorter site time. I will write a few examples later on.
  14. With multiple Leshaks in fleet you guys can communicate with each other and try to not shoot the same target. Remember: the longer the spool the shorter the site time! Altho' be careful to not flood voice comms. Maybe its best to just use a private convo.
    Of course this is getting harder with more Leshaks in fleet. I do understand that.
    I guess you can just always try to find a target for yourself that no one is shooting just yet. Thats not that hard.
  15. Expect damage agro! If you are doing everything correctly with proper skill set and fit then don't be surprised that damage agro will often times land on you!
    Anticipate some agro switch on your ship, be on the lookout and please broadcast on time!
  16. Taking fleet roles with the Leshak is not the best idea.
    - You should never try to MTAC (gun range problem + possible niarja jam).
    - You should never try to AAA (you dont have enough range to shoot properly).
    - You should probably not try to DDD or HHH (lack of webs).
    - You might be able to VVV in it, but its not really optimal to do so (lack of agility and occasional gun range problem).
    - You already have a unique role in fleet. Its called "Leshak"!

SITE BY SITE GUIDE:

I'll try to give you examples here. Mostly just presuming you are the only Leshak in fleet. Sometimes you have to adjust your targets depending your fleet as i wrote above.
I'm sorry this is not a sandbag ship, you actually have to use your brain, not just your eyes :) Hey now! Don't blame me! You chose to fly it.

True Power Provisional Headquarters (TPPH)

  1. First pocket:
    Usually you start Mystic on Outuni and burn to Occult range of the second tagged Osti (in most fleets it should be tag 5).
    When you are there immediately switch to Occult and shoot it until its dead. After that use best judgement what to shoot meanwhile burning to The Second Gate.
    - If super-light on snipers then instead of Osti you do the same thing just with the Vylade.
    - If fleet is really light on numbers, then you do the same, just Occult the Outuni and then Occult the healthiest Osti!
  2. Second pocket:
    Again start with Mystic on first Antem and immediately burn to the second Osti (should be tag 4) switch and shoot with Occult when you can.
    After its dead burn to the Third Gate and spool on whatever you can best!
    - If fleet is sniper light you should burn to 2nd Antem and Occult it. If you are super-sniper light then i guess you need to shoot the Mara as well before Antems.
      Remember: do not burn much while shooting the Mara, cuz it ruins your tracking.
    - If fleet is low on numbers then kill Mara and then Occult the second Osti.
  3. Third pocket:
    - First wave: Mystic the last romi and start to burn! You can actually choose in between 2 things.
      If you feel like helping the HHH (cuz maybe they need some help) just keep shooting Romies backwards
      (skip the one that is actually being shot by HHH). When there are only 2 Osties left burn to your one and only
      anchor spot which should be 80 km from beacon and 20 km to the left from the tower (exactly where the last VVV spot is).
     The second thing you can do is try to Occult the last Osti that is not a wave trigger, which is usually tagged as 3.
      Important!!! Don't shoot the last tagged Osti (usually tag 9 or Z).
      You can start burning to your anchor when its about to hit armor. Good news: you can stay on this anchor spot until payout :)
      If super-sniper light you might need to help out with killing the Mara at the beginning of this wave.
    - Second wave: Start with the second to last Osti (usually tag 6). Again, its important to not shoot the last, wave trigger Osti (9 or Z)!
      After it goes poof you can help out with killing Romies similar to 1st wave or just spool on something that you think is best (except the wave trigger).
      If fleet is light on numbers you should primary the Intaki and then go business as usual.
    - Third wave: Occult the last tagged Outuni. When it goes poof you should shoot one of the two Osties. This wave can go a lot of ways.
      So after these 2 ships just get ready to spool on whatever needed and/or left.
      You should try to even kill the very last frig on grid if that's the only thing preventing you from tower bash.
  4. After tower spawns Occult it, drone it and enjoy your bio!

Nation Rebirth Facility (NRF)

  1. First Wave:
    Mystic the last tagged Vylade and burn to the last tagged Osti. When you can, switch to Occult and shoot it! When it dies find the next best thing to spool on.
    When there is only 2 Battleships left, burn to your first anchor spot: 80 km from beacon, 45 km to the right from tower. Its roughly around the very last VVV spot,
    just about 10 kms from AAA. The goal is to be in Occult range of the spawning Yulais.
    - If light on snipers then you need to primary Vylades. If super-light on snipers, need to kill Maras as well.
    - If light on DPS then change your anchoring to roughly around DPS anchor spot cuz you gonna shoot Osties next wave!
  2. Second wave:
    Occult Yulais! Preferably backwards, but you should start shooting them even if there are no tags yet. Remember, spooling time is everything for this ship!
    After all the Yulais are dead shoot whatever is left and burn to next DPS anchor spot (you can look for VVV guide or for the actual on-site VVV for help).
    - If fleet is really light on DPS then you should shoot Osties backwards in this wave.
  3. Third wave:
    Occult Yulais first, then whatever is left! If there are only 3 ships left on grid you should start burning to exactly where you were anchoring the first time!
    (75 km from beacon, 45 km to the right from tower).
  4. Fourth wave:
    This is when it becomes a little bit tricky. you can easily find yourself out of position in this wave. Don't worry about it too much.
    Mystic the last tagged Outuni, even if there is only one.
    Spoiler

    - Don't stop your burn (except if you caught the full wave initial agro)! Burn all the way close to Yulais! After your Outuni dies shoot Yulais backwards,
      preferably with Occult. After that burn back to Osties and shoot them backwards.
      Now here comes the problem: if you do this then at some point you will be probably out of logi optimal range as well as booster range in a WTM fleet
      (Side note: In my personal opinion AAA and Booster should just simply adjust positions for this last wave and problem solved).
      Now. Its not really that scary as it looks like. You most likely wont die for reasons i am not going to specify (yeah i am a smartass, but
      i'm pretty sure you are bored already with this guide anyway). But i do understand if FC or Logi or even yourself are freaking out cuz of this.
     So fine, lets be a good line pilot and don't give a heart attack for them. In this case you can skip this burning out part, but my inner perfectionist will cry every time.

    - Stay about 30km to AAA to ensure you are still in logi range and Mystic the Yulais backwards. Then Occult Osties backwards.
    - If fleet is DPS light or you have faith in Snipers to finish the job without you then you should simply shoot Osties backwards after your Outuni with Occult of course.
    - If fleet is low on numbers you should shoot the last Intaki after your Outuni. After that Last Osti and so on.
  5. Remember: never stop shooting until payout, please!

True Creations Research Center (TCRC)

  1. After entrance Mystic the last tagged Outuni and start burning to the tower. Lean a bit to left to evade the incoming Vindi Train!
    Be careful to not be completely out of logi range due to early burning! In all fairness that's actually pretty hard to achieve in this site.
    Nevertheless you should better check!
  2. After your Outuni dies Occult the tower ASAP and never stop until it blows up.
    You should sit next to Vindicators nice and close to the Tower for reasons you can find in one of my posts in this thread.
    In case of jam you re-spool on the tower and cry silently (F).
  3. When tower hits 50% hull lock up the warp disrupting ships (usually just Schmaels and Auga).
    At 20% hull you should recall drones and start to align to your FC's broadcast. After tower start shooting the "scrams".
    When "scrams are clear" and your FC tells you to warp you leave the site with the rest of the battleships.
  4. Be super careful in this site! Chances are if you are doing everything correctly, then at some point there will be a huge agro switch onto you!
    On-time broadcast is essential to stay alive in a TCRC!

The Kundalini Manifest (MOM)

  1.  After entrance you start burning to the Kundi and start shooting The first tagged Outuni if present. If not then the first tagged Arnon.
    If there are no Outunis and no Arnons then i guess you can try to shoot the Bombers while you are burning to the Kundalini.
  2. Do Not Bump It Pretty Please! Should keep at range 15 km!
  3. When you are in Occult range you start spooling on it ASAP. Its really important, because your ship is literally designed for something big, like this.
    In case of jam you start to shoot the Kundalini again. You never stop shooting it until its dead. And then enjoy the payout.

ADVANCED TIPS:

  1. I would like to point out that you already spent a huge amount of ISK to get this ship into WTM.
    So while you are at it you should probably go all the way and do the bling properly. Pimp it out as much as possible!
    Even with some Abyssal Sinks (Cough-cough i am currently selling 3 of these, contact me for more info SOLD! ), and Augmented Ogres!
    The only modules not really important in this ship are the utility high slots.
  2. In case of a contest you can go really crazy with overheating your gun cuz this ship can actually take it.
    A lot will depend on you when it comes to a TCRC contest! Try to shoot the tower as soon as possible and try to overload all the way!
    Be careful tho', you really don't want to burn your gun out.
  3. You can equip a Mobile Depot and a local Sensor Booster with ECCM Script into your cargo hold.
    When it comes to TCRC tower bash after burning into position you can drop the Depot, switch your MWD to the SeBo and try to resist those Niarja jams. :)
    BE AWARE! You need to refit again switching back the MWD when the tower is at 50% hull. Also don't forget to scoop your Depot before you start aligning out!
    A lot of possible mistakes come with this, so you need your A-Game, or don't even try it.
  4. You can go full-on nuts and get several guns into your cargo hold and just switch them when they are close to burning out.
    Only possible with a friendly Orca/Nestor around or at the very beginning of a TPPH tower bash with an earlier deployed Depot.
    This way you don't have to go to a Citadel every time you overheated your gun. You can paste the utility high modules, but the gun would be too expensive.
  5. Never stop thinking about what else you could do to improve! I'm pretty sure there are plenty other tips and tricks with this ship, but i should probably stop for now.

 

My personal take on recommended implants (disclaimer: it's not going to be cheap, but it also won't be "ultra-high end"):

  1. High-grade Ascendancy Alpha
  2. High-grade Ascendancy Beta
  3. High-grade Ascendancy Gamma
  4. High-grade Ascendancy Delta
  5. High-grade Ascendancy Epsilon
  6. Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Warp Drive Speed WS-618 (available in Concord LP Store)
  7. Ogdin's Eye Coordination Enhancer
  8. Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-806 (available in Concord LP Store)
  9. Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Gunnery RF-906 (available in Concord LP Store)
  10. There is really no useful implant here for a shield Leshak so far, only an armor buffer:
    Inherent Implants 'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1006. Would not really recommend to buy this for a WTM fleet.
    Hoping for a weapon +6% damage sometime in the future.

 

Okay...
This has gotten much bigger than i thought it would. Sorry about that. If anything else comes to my mind i will adjust / remove / add things if and when i feel like it.
Feel free to share your own thoughts below!

Edited by niki lasvegas
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Posted (edited)

Love it. Except for this bit:

58 minutes ago, niki lasvegas said:

Utility High Slots are mostly there to soak up your heat damage. Not saying you will never use them, but chances are you will probably never use them. :) 
So they are not really relevant. They just need to be there sitting, looking pretty.

Leshaks have a bonus to Remote Armor Repair range. I suggest we use it by loading up on 2-4 large armor reps and saving our fleet-mates when the need arises.

Edit: just looked at the recommended fit... what's up with all the remote cap in there? :o

Edited by Lord Sarevok

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1 minute ago, Lord Sarevok said:

Love it. Except for this bit:

Leshaks have a bonus to Remote Armor Repair range. I suggest we use it by loading up on 2-4 large armor reps and saving our fleet-mates when the need arises.

Fair point.
Even tho' i personally don't believe in armor reps saving anyone in WTM fleet due to the nature of the community. But i'm sure many thinks otherwise and that's not an argument i am willing to take. Can just silently disagree.

Nevertheless if anyone feels like stuffing remote armors to utility highs feel free to do so! The ship indeed has a bonus for it. Just be careful about the tight CPU fitting limit! Would be a shame if you miss out on some nice mod cuz too many remote reps on highs!

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Regarding high slots, would it be a decent idea to put an offlined cyno and entosis link next to the disentegrator to act as a giant heat sink? I don't understand heat dispersion as much I'd like, would this make any difference then having the slots empty?

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1 hour ago, Malcolm Galora said:

Regarding high slots, would it be a decent idea to put an offlined cyno and entosis link next to the disentegrator to act as a giant heat sink? I don't understand heat dispersion as much I'd like, would this make any difference then having the slots empty?

Hehe.
I was thinking the same a while back, playing with the idea. But never got to actually follow it up. Those items would be probably the best heatsinks (at least in theory), but i can not really be bothered to test it out :P
Another problem is that technically those modules are banned from WTM.
But if i ever actually test it out i'll get back to you with the results :D 
Of course if someone has something about the topic feel free to speak up.

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So I've just spent the last hour and a half shooting asteroids to test how "heat sink" modules in the high slots affect the time it takes for the gun to burn out. What I've found is that it doesn't matter at all what modules you have or don't have; the average time to burn the gun is the same with empty slots, online modules or offline modules in the high slots.

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Yeah, my understanding of the heat mechanics has always been that it doesn't matter what's in the empty slots as long as those slots are also not being overheated. All that matters is that there be slots between the heated objects, which isn't an issue with the Leshak. Not sure if I'm expressing this well, just that what eFFektz is saying matches what I've always been told for PVP heating of weapons.

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Posted (edited)

So as long as you don't want to heat for example an armor repper or something extra like that it really doesn't matter, cuz you only have 1 single gun.

Okay. Well that makes sense. Also that means you don't have to bring cyno and stuff like that, Malcolm :P

Going to edit the initial post according to that after some tests.

UPDATE / EDIT : actually i have some contradicting info on this. So i'm gonna investigate more and see if i can find out more. Once i get to some results i'll get back to this. Anyone with any useful info: feel free to chip in!

Edited by niki lasvegas

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Nicely written guide, very helpful. As this is going to get thrown at LPs, maybe a section on appropriate implants?

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Posted (edited)

Just a tiny update guys to note: in TCRC when you are at the "Towerbash Phase" please go ahead and snuggle with the Vindicators nice and close to the Tower!
That way tunnel-vision Logi have easier time to spot lasers on you.
But more importantly if you grab the aggro Vindis will have easier time to web Schmaels.
And lastly DDD will have easier time to blap the respawning Niarja too if it doesnt start to burn to you, cuz you are out of its orbit-range.

Thanks for reading! :)

Edited by niki lasvegas
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On 3/19/2019 at 11:56 PM, niki lasvegas said:

So as long as you don't want to heat for example an armor repper or something extra like that it really doesn't matter, cuz you only have 1 single gun.

Okay. Well that makes sense. Also that means you don't have to bring cyno and stuff like that, Malcolm :P

Going to edit the initial post according to that after some tests.

UPDATE / EDIT : actually i have some contradicting info on this. So i'm gonna investigate more and see if i can find out more. Once i get to some results i'll get back to this. Anyone with any useful info: feel free to chip in!

Old good EFT is a good tool for planning heat, it has related functionality I didn't find in Pyfa.

It may look like this https://ibb.co/Kz4bN95

EFT with current data library can be found here https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eft-eve-fitting-tool-for-invasion/5904

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For anyone considering getting a Mimesis implant set for incursion Leshak... don't. It's 134s to equal non-Mimesis Leshak with both ships having max skills and a Pashan 7% RoF implant. About 145s without the implant.
You could maybe bring it down to 120 or 130 seconds, but that would still mean the only time the implant set it better, is during a long tower bash. And while that sounds nice, a lot of time, you're shooting enemy ships, which all die way faster than 2 minutes.
image.thumb.png.67dc6da89699bf2a71ac34b5e553928a.png

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Just want to add if anyone want to further increase leshak dps, consider abyssal rad sinks with 22.7%  which cost 100-200m per mod. Full skilled Leshak pilot with said mods will give you 3K DPS.

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5d8d90c6b14d2_T2Shark.PNG.6e58c2be7c9b66c47385314a4f99462c.PNG5d8d90c511213_FCShark.PNG.27c2025b44d0071d586a18446a720e34.PNG

Abyssal rad sinks with dmg mod higher than 1.14 and ROF of 7% will get u 3K Total DPS

(Assuming Pre BS V, Gun Spec V, SS V and Rapid V)

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As someone who flies a Leshak I'd suggest the following:

Get your gun-spec to 4 whilst saving up.

Buy the entry Leshak ONCE YOU HAVE GUN SPEC TO 4.

Pay your SRP.  I'm not kidding.

First upgrade is the Thucker Shield Extender being replaced with an Abyssal that is AWESOME for hit-points ( like plus 650 hp's.  3200 hp's basic is a good place to be when you're checking contracts in Jita to find one ).  This then reacts with the rigs & fleet boost to REALLY help with Armor-slapping.  I have tested the hull in Pyfa for sig, and 5m makes no difference on such a large ship.  So Abyssal 'Republic Fleet' works.  Having flown it Pulse your MWD ( auto-repeat is off ).  That keeps you out of trouble.  Logi do fine.

After that it's the Tracking Enhancers going Pirate.  You need these at Maximum to hit the Cruisers.

Then you get damage mods that are great for both damage amount & rate of fire ( Abyssal 'T2' ).  CPU isn't a priority, as you can wangle the Utility slots in the highs to cover that ( Auto-Targ 1 is like 2 power 2 cpu, and gives you 2 extra locks ).

After that?  Shield Slaves are looking rather nice. They aren't out yet, but when they come out I may well be investing.

'shaks don't have to warp fast, that's the thing. They're there to kill Battleships & Towers.  Mobile in site sure, but they do not need to be fast for warping.

I have Zor's Hyper & an Ogdins in my pod too.

Slot 9 Rate of Fire Implant will help.

Armor Implant in slot 10 will help. Shak's have a large Armor layer, so you really do see that extra %.

Slot 6 for me is currently navigation.  To help with Pulsing the MWD.  It does work well.

And when you're looking at 110k ehp with a Shield Layer that works you really get to enjoy the hull.

.

Shield 'Shaks aren't cheap.  If you want Cheap use a Vindi.  I see the Shield 'Shak I have as the flagship of my operation.


Brok.




Note:  Abyssal 'item' is the Basic Item with some decent dice-rolls on it.
 

Edited by Brok Haslack

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On 27/09/2019 at 5:47 AM, Eliz Marbly said:

5d8d90c6b14d2_T2Shark.PNG.6e58c2be7c9b66c47385314a4f99462c.PNG5d8d90c511213_FCShark.PNG.27c2025b44d0071d586a18446a720e34.PNG

Abyssal rad sinks with dmg mod higher than 1.14 and ROF of 7% will get u 3K Total DPS

(Assuming Pre BS V, Gun Spec V, SS V and Rapid V)

If you check Jita you'll find the T2 Modders.

Abyssal 'T2 Entropic Radiation Sink'.

I shopped around, & was able to find 4 of them, comparable to Veres, for 400m ISK total.

Edited by Brok Haslack

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On 18/03/2019 at 3:38 PM, niki lasvegas said:

Even tho' i personally don't believe in armor reps saving anyone in WTM fleet due to the nature of the community.

Having flown it I have helped patch ships live.  Resists average at ~55% against Layzors for Armor in our fleets, so this is just about buffer whilst Logi do their thing.

I can squeeze in a couple of cycles of 2 T2 Armor reppers typically.  That is more buffer than the person had before.  With range being such an Issue in HQ fleets Shield Reps just won't work.

Mmm, buffer :)

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